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Old 08-04-2008, 08:24 AM   #1966
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OK. Doesnt Darkside run with us in Calhoun? Where we follow the VTA rules? Even if he is running somewhere that runs six cells and lipo, or stock powerplant. Thats not the same as running stock TC. The shell and tires make that much difference.
thanks...I didnt post to cause problems, it was to inform other tracks of another formula that seems to work...the 4 cell deal is great for whomever is running it...when I went to GA, I ran it as well...but most of our guys are working with what we already had....the biggest reason most will run this class cause they allready have some or most of the equipment...that keeps cost down...example....

if you have 10-20 guys with lipos and another 10 with 17.5....and they really want to run the vintage bodies and tires/rims...all the other things that make the class "FUN"...do you make them buy another $80 motors or go and tell them to invest in 4cell setup(batt,charg,dis,trays,ect)...no you dont cause more than likely they wont anyway...the point Im making is that "most" tracks are running the offficial USVTA rules and thats great....if we could we would...but you dont tell the guys that are having a great time running in TA that they need to buy a bunch of stuff just to run this class...

the succes of this class is based on the "FUN FACTOR" and turn-out....I would rather race against 20-30 guys every weekend than to race 3-7...IMO

if it gets them racing do whats best...and as far as 4cell compared to 6cell..if you all are running the same power plant..its still going to be the same speeds

its left up to driver then.....hope this helps and this is just my thoughts on the class and in no way meant to offend the class or the guys that created it thanks
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Old 08-04-2008, 08:36 AM   #1967
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Just curious but what was the original reasoning for 4 cell versus 6 cell? Was it because the makers were old 12th scale racers and thats what they had or is there a bigger reason for it?

Im not trying to argue ( i have 6 4 cell packs to run) I was just curious cause it just would seem easier for someone to be able to buy a 6 cell stick pack from any LHS and get to racing instead of having to order/build a 4 cell pack. If i hadnt bought my 4 cell packs used id have been screwed cause i cant solder batteries to save my life for some reason lol.

Again just asking a serious questions for the powers to be. Please only answer if your truely "in the know"
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Old 08-04-2008, 08:54 AM   #1968
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Our club developed a Vintage TA spec in parallel with Trackside, though neither group had any idea the other was doing so. Oddly enough, we both enced up with almost identical specs. Doug's (that's MISTER VTA to you ) first experience with Vintage TransAm was at Trackside and, recognizing a winning formula for what it was, developed the VTA around a similar spec.

There were certainly other clubs that had created this or that class combination locally but Trackside and MCRC were the first clubs that were really talking about it on RC Tech and had published specs after actual testing and consideration. The folks at Trackside and ourselves were absolutely amazed that two clubs separated by the better part of two thousand miles came up with almost identical rules at exactly the same time. AND, given the experience base brought to bear at either track, it's not surprising at the same time because both groups really understand what it takes to make a class work for the long-term.

When we were testing to create our spec we tried every combination we could lay our hands on. We did 6-cell with stock, 19T, Silver Can and even 35T and 45T lathe motors. We also ran 4-cell with everything above (well...except the lathe motors). Our original spec was for a "Pro" class with 4-cell 19T and a "Sportsman" class with 4-cell stock. After running half a season under that we adopted a pure 4-cell Stock spec for everybody and the racing improved with the lower speeds (everybody had gone to 19T initially).

The key to choosing the 4-cell in the TC was, as I said above (and I learned subsequently was exactly why Trackside ended up with the same spec), to create a DISTINCTLY different driving experience from 6-cell TC. The only way a class will survive any length of time is if it offers a distinctly different driving experience. I've been around RC over 20 years now and have seen novelty classes come and go (truck bodies on pan cars, stock car bodies on 1/12 cars, you name it--it's come and gone). The only time classes "stick" is if they are, in some way, fundamentally different.

The other GREAT thing about the 4-cell Stock (and, apparently, LiPo 21.5) is that they are slow enough that beginning drivers can actually learn to control the car and race successfully--something that plain doesn't happen very often in even Stock 6-cell TC. AND no matter what anybody thinks otherwise, the slower racing is (true whether you're talking about real cars, radio control cars, slot cars) the CLOSER the racing is. Everybody likes a "speed fix" now and again, and there are classes that cater to that, but the closest racing is always in the slowest classes.

That's kind of the cocktail napkin overview.

Like I said above, if folks have fun running some alternate spec so be it. I only add that the two fundamental reasons I've heard for altering the spec have been "but it's too slow" and "but the racers here already had this or that". Either is fine if that's what works for you, but understand that you've created another novelty class. If that's cool with you, that's cool. But understand it for what it is.
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Old 08-04-2008, 09:13 AM   #1969
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Thanks for the clarification. It being my first on road experience i was just curious. It was alot of fun and again being my first on road experience was a great speed for me.....even tho i still crashed alot but what can ya do to fix horrible driving lol. To me it wasnt too slow. i liked the speed cause it allowed me to learn turning easier but yet fast enough that a poor set up in my case cause alot of rear slide in heavy corners.
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Old 08-04-2008, 09:56 AM   #1970
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thanks...I didnt post to cause problems, it was to inform other tracks of another formula that seems to work...the 4 cell deal is great for whomever is running it...when I went to GA, I ran it as well...but most of our guys are working with what we already had....the biggest reason most will run this class cause they allready have some or most of the equipment...that keeps cost down...example....

if you have 10-20 guys with lipos and another 10 with 17.5....and they really want to run the vintage bodies and tires/rims...all the other things that make the class "FUN"...do you make them buy another $80 motors or go and tell them to invest in 4cell setup(batt,charg,dis,trays,ect)...no you dont cause more than likely they wont anyway...the point Im making is that "most" tracks are running the offficial USVTA rules and thats great....if we could we would...but you dont tell the guys that are having a great time running in TA that they need to buy a bunch of stuff just to run this class...

the succes of this class is based on the "FUN FACTOR" and turn-out....I would rather race against 20-30 guys every weekend than to race 3-7...IMO

if it gets them racing do whats best...and as far as 4cell compared to 6cell..if you all are running the same power plant..its still going to be the same speeds

its left up to driver then.....hope this helps and this is just my thoughts on the class and in no way meant to offend the class or the guys that created it thanks
I know you weren't trying to offend anyone or start problems...I just know from experience that something "similar" to Stock TC will fade out over time...

I saw it with the spec class that I moderated - we had 15+ the first year, then less than 10 (on a good day) the following year, to 0 the 3rd year...

Maybe the bodies/tires will make a distinct enough difference to keep people interested - which is cool...and hopefully it will keep guys having fun instead of turning into the have's vs the have-not's...

This is a great class idea and a huge reason to bring guys out to join in and bring those that gave up on TC back out of retirement...

I'm not knocking what is working at your track - just hate seeing a good chemistry mess with
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Old 08-04-2008, 11:05 AM   #1971
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thanks...I didnt post to cause problems, it was to inform other tracks of another formula that seems to work...
I'd like to offer a devil's advocate perspective on the formula your crew is running. Is you track particularly large? I ask this b'c "slow speed, close racing" is relative to the size of the track. Case in point, try USVTA on 301's (MD track) nitro track layout (not the EP layout) and issues would ensue. Laps/race might be single digits over 8 minutes, and it isn't even remotely technical at this scale and speed.

This is a great forumla. I for one love it, love watching it grow, evolve through rules like the FDR use (or dis-use), whatever it takes to continue the fun factor. Cheers to those who fathered (and mothered) this class.
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Old 08-04-2008, 12:13 PM   #1972
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Laps/race might be single digits over 8 minutes
lol sounds like my last race...btw everyone else was turning 15-16 sec laps lol
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Old 08-04-2008, 12:52 PM   #1973
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I ask this b'c "slow speed, close racing" is relative to the size of the track. Case in point, try USVTA on 301's (MD track) nitro track layout (not the EP layout) and issues would ensue. Laps/race might be single digits over 8 minutes, and it isn't even remotely technical at this scale and speed.
+1 from me.....

IMHO, the most fun that can be had with this class is back on the parking lots, where uncertain terrain and smaller, "scale" layouts would further level the playing fields. We all love the scale looking cars, so how about scale looking tracks to race them on....LOL

I still look forward running on the permanant tracks, but we're taking this class back to our roots, in out area.

I was impressed how all the vintage cars handled on a pretty bumpy parking lot, and I can only attribute that to the slower speeds....

Here are a few testimonials from our demo over the weekend....These were posted on our local website....

One wrote:

It was great to see both Barry and Mark back behind the wheel (and with Mark I mean wheel ) and getting together with all my other racing buddies. We sure swapped a bunch of paint and rubbed a bunch of fenders, but I don't think anyone had anything major break besides my son's diff outdrive....shows that speed isn't everything

Another wrote:

This day kinda reminded me of when I first started "RCin' ", no trasponders, no "hand-sponders", not even the old "grocery store clickers"!!!! Just plain old crusin' around and a ton of laughing, but enough about myself, the demo gets two thumbs up.

If my math is correct I think there were either 10 or 11 VTA cars. Certainly notable in light of the current state of on road today.


And a third wrote:

That was the most fun I had driving an R/C car in years - on a track that size, "tradin' paint" is an understatement. It was refreshing to take the competitive aspect of R/C racing out of the equation and simply run in circles for fun. It was also great running with everyone for the first time in 2-3 years - can't wait to do it again (without the concrete barriers that magically "jump out" in front of the car)....

I think we generated a lot of interest, which could mean MORE vintage racers in the future...
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Old 08-04-2008, 03:17 PM   #1974
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Colorado's USVTA Regional Championships Race is now accepting Entries.

See the fliers below or the Colorado Racing section for more information.

The 'A0' flier has the entry form and is a printable size. Entry forms can be sent with payment to:
MHOR R/C Raceway
15540 E. Batavia Dr
Aurora, CO 80011

Attached Files
File Type: pdf CUSVTARCRC Flyer 2008 Size A0.pdf (235.3 KB, 81 views)
File Type: pdf CUSVTARCRC Flyer 2008 Size B0.pdf (440.7 KB, 74 views)
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Old 08-04-2008, 06:19 PM   #1975
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Just curious but what was the original reasoning for 4 cell versus 6 cell? Was it because the makers were old 12th scale racers and thats what they had or is there a bigger reason for it?
I am the developer of the Trackside Specs. Scottrik hit it right on the head.

"The key to choosing the 4-cell in the TC was, as I said above (and I learned subsequently was exactly why Trackside ended up with the same spec), to create a DISTINCTLY different driving experience from 6-cell TC. The only way a class will survive any length of time is if it offers a distinctly different driving experience." (Scottrik)

We all remembered back when we got started and how much cost effective fun we had. (it was slot machine motors and 1200 mahr nicads for me)

The fun was leaving the sport of R/C. Stock classes were getting so fast that biginers were severly imtimidated. If they decided to jump in, the first practice and race sessions were ending in broken parts and buying more stuff to try and go faster.

We felt something needed to be done to bring the speeds back in line with relaxed fun, not white knuckle 5 min breath holding sprints.

The Vintage Trans-Am bodies with scale looking wheels and tires strike something inside all the gearheads as just too cool. (I first saw awesum looking T/A cars at Victory Hobby in Green Bay. They ran an unlimited motor rule. The cars looked cool, but took lots of tallent to race and the repair bills were high so interest soon wained.)

Some of us took the plunge and bought T/A equipment, set-up an older unused car and had a great time first time out. Same results as what you read here on USVTA evry day. Other racers left the pits to come out and watch a simple club race. Interest was high and the numbers grew. The experiment was a glowing sucsess.

Doug had the vision to take it National with formation of the USVTA.

The rest is history.

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Old 08-04-2008, 06:45 PM   #1976
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I used to run stock truck and mod buggy back quite a while ago. Then I moved.

I had always wanted to try running on road, and stumbled across a track nearby where I moved to that was running USVTA (Trackside).

It was exactly what I was looking for to convince me to try running onroad. Nice and slow, and relatively cost controlled.

I knew from before that 'stock' classes never really seem to provide all that close of racing. The cars tend to handle well enough that every bit of horsepower matters, so you wind up almost constantly tuning and buying new motors. When you weren't futzing with motors, you were buying tires. When you weren't buying tires, you were adjusting gearing until you overheated a motor. At which point you were back to motors. It almost seemed like all the focus was on something other than racing.

Mod always felt similar, the constant pursuit of horsepower, usually through cash outlay.

Trans Am is the exact opposite. Once you have your motor / battery combo picked, all the fiddly stuff is behind you, leaving fun stuff like picking a body and paintjob. Heck, even gearing is pretty much taken care of for you. With brushless motors and the newly allowed LiPo, you can almost cut out the real entry level killers of buying the hottest new motors and the best batteries and instead buy stuff that will run forever with minimal fuss, maybe even continue to be useful to you if you change classes.

This is exactly what RC in general needed (and seems to be mirrored somewhat by the Slash class in offroad). Sure, there is still the pursuit of good setup, but the cars are slow enough that you actually can feel what different setup changes do to the car, which is both fun and a learning experience for new comers. Best of all, the focus is on racing and having fun. I know I'm having as much fun with RC as I used to, if not more!

I truly hope this class continues to grow, as it provides dang near the best possible experience for RC newcomers (and those of us looking to try something new, or just have fun).
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Old 08-04-2008, 06:51 PM   #1977
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that is the reason i am back running trans am..... its simple i can run the lipo packs in virtually any racing.....
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Old 08-04-2008, 09:28 PM   #1978
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Hey, however people have fun they have fun. It's close enough to Stock TC, though, to be a virtually indistinguishable driving experience. That will, over time (how much remains to be seen) doom the class there to being yet another novelty class. What will give Vintage Trans Am legs is if it provides a distinct driving experience which is exactly what the 4-cell origins of the class created.
I am not debunking the importance of the four cell powerplant. I think its very important to slow the class down from the speeds of touring. However if you really think VTA on six cells is virtually indistinguishable from touring, then perhaps you should try to run the VTA shell and tires in the Stock TC class. That combination wont be keeping up with the field of touring cars. ITs not my opinion. Its a fact.
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Old 08-04-2008, 10:05 PM   #1979
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I am not debunking the importance of the four cell powerplant. I think its very important to slow the class down from the speeds of touring. However if you really think VTA on six cells is virtually indistinguishable from touring, then perhaps you should try to run the VTA shell and tires in the Stock TC class. That combination wont be keeping up with the field of touring cars. ITs not my opinion. Its a fact.
I'm not here to argue with anyone... I HAVE run 6-cell in VTA configuration and TC--on the same chassis no less. Yes there's a difference, but no where near enough to be "a distinct driving experience". Pretty much like the Nascar bodies on pan cars back in the day. Yeah, they're a bit slower, but they didn't last. And the truck bodies. And...

If you think your group can break the cycle, like I said, knock yourselves out. Have a blast. Let me know, though, how many guys are running Vintage TA at that track in, oh, three years. I'll let you know how many are here. I'll make a little wager with you though... None of this means you or your group are "wrong" by any means. You're just having fun a different way and that's ok. My observation is that it will not be a long-lasting thing--you guys will be on the next fad that comes along. If not that one it'll be the next. And, again, that's ok if it works for you.
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Old 08-05-2008, 11:56 AM   #1980
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We are running four cells, and pretty much all VTA rules. Just no mandatory numbers.
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