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Old 01-03-2008, 05:46 PM   #31
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To be honest, it is almost impossible to avoid if dealing with larger companies for parts. Pretty much all bigger companies are going to china to have there products made. It is fat cat syndrome pretty much. They take advantage of the cheap labor and non certified materials and charge the same as the companies who produce and purchase products made in the US. There is no real savings for the consumer. It is more profit for the company. If you only new what was paid for the products coming in from china. I get chinese bearing companies contacting me all the time to purchase bearings from them. I can get them for 1/10th the price i am getting them for here in the states. These are the same bearings that alot of you purchase for big money from US based companies. Now how is it that my bearing prices are competitive? Im not losing money on them. I am happy with what i get for them and i can sleep ok at night knowing that. Yes, the other guys are making more money on them but is it worth it? To me, no but i guess i dont think like everyone else.

The amount of money it costs me to make our 1/12th car is extremely high and i refuse to cut costs by going overseas. I make money on them and i am happy with that. I dont need to clean up and retire in a week.

I see alot of people feel that they are happy about outsourcing because it keeps costs down. This is not true. If companies kept there profit margin the same as when they had manufacturing done here, You would be paying about $75 bucks for the top TC of the week. Big companies are rolling in profits and at your expense.
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Old 01-03-2008, 05:49 PM   #32
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The Federal standard is more reasonable for the use of "Made in the USA". Most companies probably follow the Federal guidelines.

But according to the California interpretation, nothing is made in the USA any more.
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Old 01-03-2008, 05:54 PM   #33
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Just hang on to your wallets,
We, the consumers are going to end up paying for all of this anyway.
They are not going to take this loss out of there profits, it will be a price increase no matter what. Even if it's tossed out of court, they still have to pay there lyers, oops did I misspell that?

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Old 01-03-2008, 06:04 PM   #34
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Hey maybe the prices already did...

recently the Losi Slider Spektrum receiver nearly DOUBLED overnight in price.

They were selling for 38.00 and went to nearly 75.00 (I had purchased one on a EBAY Buy-It-Now auction, and it must have been the day the price went UP. MINE never showed, but the SAME auction I bought mine in - immediately after I bought mine the price changed to 75 bucks...) Oh, the seller claimed the POST OFFICE must have lost mine and refunded the $$$
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Old 01-03-2008, 07:57 PM   #35
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Not saying this case does or does not have merit but rather they start the landslide that seems to drive our already high prices even higher.

No one has really mentioned that almost everything we use in this hobby if sold in California and a few other states have stickers that alert you of cancer causing contents and unsafe for pregnant women... We still race and we do this willingly... If the items or parts were made there I dont believe there is a reason for deception as we would more than likely purchase them anyway. My issue is that the lawsuits like this one are the grass roots movement that will allow prices to sky rocket ... One post here says the judge should throw the case out I dont believe any case should be thrown out but if it has no merit it should be tossed and if found with no ground for just cause the falsely accused should be able to redeem themselves and also recoup financially the loss caused by the greedy accuser if found to be of a false nature....
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Old 01-04-2008, 11:10 PM   #36
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I don't think most people realize just how small our hobby / industry really is. There are NOT 60,000 people working at Horizon and related. I'd be impressed if it totaled more than a few hundred.

Eventually it will be impossible to buy or sell anything. I suspect that sooner or later, it will be about impossible to hurt yourself in any way, nothing you buy could be used in a manner that could be considered "unacceptable". At this point, the government will have done such an excellent job of keeping us safe, that the act of living will likely be less fun than the thought of actually dying.

And how far down the pipe can you go before you have to ask, "you know, that made in America thing was made on a piece of equipment that originated in Switzerland." An oversees made capacitor, regardless of age, or how many USA vendors touched it and made a profit on it before it was sold to the USA manufacturer, has to declare that the item is NOT 100% made in the USA. That's how I understand it.

So, based on that. Let's really stretch this. Edward came to the USA. Edward became a citizen of the United States. Edward was not "made or conceived" in the USA. Although he is here legally, and is now a citizen. So are the capacitors in the above statement. USA company legally brought them in, owns them, and is making something with them. BUT, they are considered, not made in the USA. So, if Novak found a USA company to make the part, can they still say made in the USA if part of the product was assembled by a human that was not made in the USA? This isn't as stupid a thought as you might think. Country of origin, and a piece of the equation.

Here's one to wrap around. California, wine country. The sunlight beating down on the vineyards, making it possible to grow the grapes. The sunlight DID NOT, originate in California. You're not going to grow ANYTHING without sunlight. I don't drink, so for all I know, nobody says "made in the USA" on various California spirits. But came to me, and there it is.

I've spent a few minutes, here and there, in the aisle where we keep Novak stuff. I can't help but think of the sticker that is on the box that says, "this product is known to the State of California to cause Cancer, birth defects, or other reproductive harm. It is my opinion that the only way a speed control is going to cause reproductive harm, would be if I took a page from the movie Napoleon Dynamite, and tried to do a bit of time traveling with a brushless setup strapped to my testicles...

Every time I read it, it disgusts me. The situation that lead to that on the box, has effected the price of the item. It has to.

I better go and get my sperm count checked....

Wait, our warehouse is in Montana, I think that it only effects California... I should be fine.

IN FACT, maybe we should be able to sue California on this. Perhaps as no other state is having a problem with it, there is some kind of conspiracy going on here, and they are trying to instill a state of false panic. I think if they can't get all the states on board, then they should maybe sit down and shut up. And by California, I mean the stupid government related people that felt it necessary to have that sticker on everything, and the people that fought for it because it was a "good idea"...

No disrespect to any Californians out there (frankly, I'd love to live there, I hate 40 below weather... lol... ) unless you were solely responsible for the sticker. If you are, you're a tool.

It's like we have a real shortage of common sense going on in America. Other countries must laugh and laugh when they read this kind of thing. I haven't bothered to read the paperwork related to this thread, and I'm not going to. BUT, I really need to know how it became a matter that required "compensation". Did your car work? Yep. And the problem is that you feel you have been some how swindled or cheated by purchasing this item that is no more or less expensive than all the rest of the items that were also not made here or there. It is my opinion that if there is no competing item that is made in the USA, they should toss it completely.

MAN, I hate crap like this... sorry to rant.

Just my opinion.

-Bob
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Old 01-05-2008, 02:17 AM   #37
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Old 01-05-2008, 03:55 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob-Stormer View Post
MAN, I hate crap like this... sorry to rant.

Just my opinion.

-Bob
So don't post crap like that if you don't know what you're talking about.

I've always found it curious that it's generally people in other states whining and bitching about us. The stickers you refer to were the result of a ballot initiative (Prop. 65) so you might as well just say you're mad at the majority of Californians, because we voted for them.

Awareness is just that...awareness. Feel free to ignore whatever information you want.
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Old 01-05-2008, 04:50 AM   #39
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Bob,

Its not just the hobby end that is going overseas. I know it is small but it is just another form of greed in a small dose. It is the big picture i look at this is a small part of the big picture.
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Old 01-05-2008, 05:42 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by RussB View Post
anyone else get a class action law suit notice in the mail? i guess someone is sueing Horizon / Spektrum / Losi over the "made in america" claim... sounds kind of like that novak lawsuit.

so what's the matter? didn't make the main with their gear and decided to sue over it?
Hey, could this be the next movie of Michael Moore?
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Old 01-05-2008, 06:58 AM   #41
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Bob, There you go musing again, things must be slow in the mail order business in January........Just so you know California, in the good USA is not alone..I just had a look at a box of frozen fish fillets that say "product of Canada" although they come to Canada in a frozen lump from Vietnam, China or god knows where. (JEEZ can I still say god!!!!) BUT a NEUFIE...( an adult product of Newfoundland) took the battered semi cooked fish off of the quick freeze tray and dumped them in a cardboard box. Last man in theory!!HMMM maybe the box was made in Canada.... .EH.

In a year or two it won't matter as everything will be a product of China any way.

Bob I was just getting out of the funk of finding out there is no Santa Claus (your wife's cruel remark), then while baby sitting my grand daughter new years eve she asked me if the "TOOTH FAIRY" is gay......

So now I understand why the sticker on the front of the Novak GTB 4cell Bl esc that "Santa"
dropped in my pitbox , and no doubt charged to my mastercard cannot say probuct of USA

BE
TJ

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Old 01-05-2008, 07:12 AM   #42
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I was born in Ca. and spent 16 years of my life there (Ventura co.)


its stuff like this that makes me anxious for it to fall in the ocean

and a big middle finger to the jack ass that filed the suit.
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Old 01-05-2008, 07:16 AM   #43
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Deleted double post!!!!!! OK....HAAAPPPPY NNNEEWWW YYYEEARR...YA'LL..."EH"
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Old 01-05-2008, 05:04 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by Turbo Joe View Post
So don't post crap like that if you don't know what you're talking about.

I've always found it curious that it's generally people in other states whining and bitching about us. The stickers you refer to were the result of a ballot initiative (Prop. 65) so you might as well just say you're mad at the majority of Californians, because we voted for them.

Awareness is just that...awareness. Feel free to ignore whatever information you want.
I appreciate your thoughts, and have no beef with the people that voted for it. Maybe it got worded funny. My gripe is that it happened, somebody thought it was a great idea, and then pushed it on through, and it happened, thereby encouraging more of it, and thereby limiting that many more freedoms. Just like this thing with the Losi suit not made in America... I suspect, given lengthy medical "opinions" on the matter most of us would fall asleep during the explanation of prop 65, at least I probably would, I think I must have A.D.D. I suspect it was presented like this. "Do you want to help prevent birth defects and cancer", if so vote yes on Prop.65. Well who wouldn't vote yes? Nobody wants that stuff.

I thought about it for a few seconds, I was not as informed as I could have been on prop 65 (I've since read up). But to know the specifics of it is not as important as what it actually means. Not how the state had a sound idea in hoping to reduce Cancer or Birth defects and keep ground water clean, but what REALLY happened because of it. It's the mis-use of it that bothers me. Lawyers that have invented good practices based on prop 65 violations. I believe it's about 800 things on the list. I'd be willing to bet the average person, regardless of location wouldn't be able to come up with say 2-3 of them. And the warning is non-specific. "Hi, it's possible, that 1 or more of 800 items you can't pronounce, MIGHT be here, along with every other business within a 500 mile radius". so what does it really do? It becomes an expensive and useless warning. If everybody posts the sign, it has no value... at all. I think the idea of it all is quite noble. I don't want birth defects or cancer, or poor ground water.

Did the sticker solve anything? Has the sticker made a marked improvement in infant mortality and a reduction in Cancer? I've done a bit of reading on the subject, and apparently, it has become the norm to put the prop 65 warnings up virtually everywhere to hopefully negate a lawsuit, thereby diminishing the value of the warning, as now it's every where you look, you don't know specifically what it is that your looking for, or why it's there, so the largely go ignored. Which of the 800 banned items am I looking at here? Just a warning sign posted by a company scared of being sued. They may not even need to. But as laymen, how would we even know?

I did take the time to read a few websites on the subject.

Here is the link from Wikipedia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Califor...ition_65_(1986)

And it's the mis-use of the law that allowed this legal thing with Losi / Horizon. Just how much harm was this person caused by the writing on the package?
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Old 01-05-2008, 05:22 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by NovakTwo View Post
In the state of California, a judicial opinion says that using even one .0001 cent component, purchased from an off-shore source, makes your product ineligible for the designation "Made in the USA" or "Made in America" when sold in the State of California.

So, even though almost all of the product is manufactured here in the US, or made mostly from US sourced components, you cannot say it is made in the USA. Pretty sad, don't you think?

Given this burden, why should manufacturers continue to hire Americans and pay the enormous overhead consistent with trying to offer products "Made in the USA"?
Let me ask this, and it's not to anybody in particular. (sorry if this has been answered, I must have missed it) Who is Eric Hoffman? What was he hoping to have happen with this? Did he need the $10 bucks?

Here is an article I scrounged up on the "made in the USA" stuff. It's almost painful to read.

http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/...s/madeusa.shtm

http://www.ftc.gov/os/1999/04/musareport.htm

I'd be really curious to know if say the one capacitor, or some miniature component that NOVAK used (that cost them the Made in the USA logo) is even made by ANY company in the USA?

Perhaps it should be legal to sue the FTC for the use of the "made in the USA" claim, if no USA company makes the parts you need to build your product in the USA, thereby crippling your ability to do business in the USA. And that's based on the fact that the FTC believes there must be some financial advantage for companys to use the claim.

I'd start whipping out, "MADE IN CALIFORNIA" stickers like they were going out of style. I suppose that has requirements too... Hence my general level of disappointment with this kind of thing.

*sigh* What positive end result will this have?
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