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Old 01-03-2008, 09:33 AM   #16
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It is interesting that mention of the "bigger picture" is being made, in the context of not supporting this law suit.

While I am not part of the suit, nor would I be, I think that the value of the "Made in America" tag should be enshrouded and protected.

"Made in America" used to mean something, and if a vendor or producer places a label on a product, it should hold meaning. "Lead Free", "Made in America", "Safe for Children", etc.
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Old 01-03-2008, 09:40 AM   #17
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As for this type of lawsuit only benefitting lawyers; that is debatable.

Profit is a great motivator.

Profit allows for lawyers to pursue an action such as this, meant to protect the meaning and validity of a branding or water-mark.

Profit also motivates manufacturers and producers to source out production to places where there are low labour standards, poor environmental records, and sub-standard quality.

Look at China's current predicament with the Olympics. The IOC is looking at the cancellation (or threat thereof) of some events due to pollution levels being off-the-meter. Much of this pollution is due to energy production for a rapidly expanding economy. Much of it is also from China's growing production base, which generates consumer items for export to "the West".

Much like the recent spate of Lead filled toys, I personally choose to purchase items which are manufactured in nations which hold a higher standard for production and product-testing, and have a good track record for auditing of these practices.

Yet if anyone can slap a "Made in America" label on something, then where do we end up?

/ End Rant
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Old 01-03-2008, 10:13 AM   #18
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To be fair, when it comes to American Exports.... they are not highly regarded, cars for instance are mostly sub standard compared to most other brands.

As for this being a hobby, yes it is, to us, but to Horizon Hobby, it is BIG business and no longer a backroom engineering business.

If they want to say 'Made in America' then it should be.

Although this lawsuit does sound more like money grabbing than anything else
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Old 01-03-2008, 10:27 AM   #19
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Well lawsuits like this should be thrown out of court by the Judge. These suits just clog up the justice system when they could be taking care of real issues (which this one is just a F'ing waste of time).

Letss hope the Jugde has some balls and stands up against these aholes!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 01-03-2008, 10:29 AM   #20
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I am thinking of suing Tamiya because I bought stuff thinking it was made in Japan and it's not!!!
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Old 01-03-2008, 10:30 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Vandelay View Post
It is interesting that mention of the "bigger picture" is being made, in the context of not supporting this law suit.

While I am not part of the suit, nor would I be, I think that the value of the "Made in America" tag should be enshrouded and protected.

"Made in America" used to mean something, and if a vendor or producer places a label on a product, it should hold meaning. "Lead Free", "Made in America", "Safe for Children", etc.
I think that being Lead Free and Made in China are 2 phrases that cant be used together anymore. To be honest, With all of the problems being had with chinese imported product, I would be concerned myself. I wouldnt want to be misinformed of where a product came from with all of the problems seen with the imported chinese product. Some people are buying products specific to where they are made to keep away from the recalled products from china. This information needs to be posted on the boxes and indeed true or something like this lawsuit is going to happen.
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Old 01-03-2008, 11:13 AM   #22
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Re: American Made Cars, and Product Quality:

Check the most-recent reliability ratings and statistics.

American made cars are regaining ground in the reliability realm.

European made cars are losing ground.

Japanese cars are, for the most part, holding the status quo.

Also, American Exports are highly regarded in many fields and markets.

American High-Tech, American Biomedical, American Industrial, etc.

I'm Canadian and will admit to appreciating the "made in America" seal of approval for many products.

And I do not believe that any judge should throw this out of court.

Clarity of Information, Transparency and availability of Information to the Consumer, Validity of Information: all of these things are very important for an informed and educated Consumer to make a wise product-decision / purchase.
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Old 01-03-2008, 11:17 AM   #23
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Guys it's called being Honest..I dont think that it should be thrown out. The company's involved did in fact know that this product was NOT Made In America..Or even assembled in America..So having a Label that Says Made In America when it's not is being dishonest, Just so you guys also know their is a difference between the plastic that's Made In America and the Plastic that's made in China. Anyone who runs a Losi Truggy will be able to tell, The first Batch was Made In America, The last few runs have been made in China and you can tell a difference in the quality.
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Old 01-03-2008, 12:58 PM   #24
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Guys it's called being Honest..I dont think that it should be thrown out. The company's involved did in fact know that this product was NOT Made In America..Or even assembled in America..So having a Label that Says Made In America when it's not is being dishonest, Just so you guys also know their is a difference between the plastic that's Made In America and the Plastic that's made in China. Anyone who runs a Losi Truggy will be able to tell, The first Batch was Made In America, The last few runs have been made in China and you can tell a difference in the quality.
How will this affect Losi products? Its this big enough to cause them to sell or go out of business?
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Old 01-03-2008, 01:47 PM   #25
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I hate silly lawsuits as much as the next guy. The principal at my kids elementary school can't give a straight answer about anything because they're so afraid of getting sued by someone/anyone.

But that being said...

Some people, not me, but some people, actually care when they see the 'made in america' label. So if your stuff isn't 'made in america', then don't say it is. And companies aren't exactly willing to change just because someone ask them to. So sometimes class action suits, or the threat of one, is the only way to get them to change.

As for all the insults to the guy filing the suit....grow up guys. So you don't agree with him, so what. I think there are A LOT of things people can do to earn the name "scumbag" other than filing a suit against Horizon. Horizon are big boys, I'm sure they can handle themselves.
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Old 01-03-2008, 02:07 PM   #26
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It really does suck to see such a lack of concern for the US economy. Remember that the more that gets outsourced out of the country, there are that many more people out of a job in the US. People who have mouths to feed and keep a roof over there heads. I find it really sad how many people are looking for jobs. Highly skilled people willing to work for peanuts because they lost there jobs due to outsourcing to china. The funny part is, these are the same people who spoke the same way about this topic until it hit home. If you keep turning your head to what is going on, it is going to sneak up and get you sooner than you know.
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Old 01-03-2008, 02:37 PM   #27
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i wholeheartedly agree about the "made in america" statement should mean that it really is made in america. however, a $10 and a $27 coupon for me does nothing to solve the problem.

and it is kind of funny to see a group of people, us, who knowingly use harmful chemicals (traction compound, motor spray, ca kicker) and do stupid stuff (dremel aluminum and carbon fiber without proper protection) discussing lead content. absolutely it should not be in childrens toys. it should be identified wherever it is used. but we use solder, lead weights, etc... on our cars all the time, so this really shouldn't be about lead.

perhaps a real punishment like revoking their business license or subjecting them to some sort of trade comission fine might have a bigger impact at correcting the problem more than coupons usable on horizon products.
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Old 01-03-2008, 03:21 PM   #28
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Default How about a little perspective?

In the state of California, a judicial opinion says that using even one .0001 cent component, purchased from an off-shore source, makes your product ineligible for the designation "Made in the USA" or "Made in America" when sold in the State of California.

So, even though almost all of the product is manufactured here in the US, or made mostly from US sourced components, you cannot say it is made in the USA. Pretty sad, don't you think?

Given this burden, why should manufacturers continue to hire Americans and pay the enormous overhead consistent with trying to offer products "Made in the USA"?
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Old 01-03-2008, 05:25 PM   #29
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In the state of California, a judicial opinion says that using even one .0001 cent component, purchased from an off-shore source, makes your product ineligible for the designation "Made in the USA" or "Made in America" when sold in the State of California.

So, even though almost all of the product is manufactured here in the US, or made mostly from US sourced components, you cannot say it is made in the USA. Pretty sad, don't you think?

Given this burden, why should manufacturers continue to hire Americans and pay the enormous overhead consistent with trying to offer products "Made in the USA"?
Because the reality is most companies make all sub-assemblies out of country then ship the 'parts' into the country to avoid tariffs imposed on imports AND to then be able to say 'Made in America' or 'Assembled in America'
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Old 01-03-2008, 05:37 PM   #30
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Miller Tyme has hit the nail on the head.

These companies may have not understood, or they may not have placed enough emphasis on the Corporate Controls and Due Diligence required to track whether (or not) a "made in America" label was warrented.

That obviously turned out to be a bad business choice.

Yet there are STRONG reasons for these requirements (some good, some bad, all debatable).
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