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Old 01-17-2008, 05:41 AM   #991
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Well, as always, I'll be the A**hole.

From 2008 ExCom meeting minutes:
'17.5 brushless technologies are acceptable to compete with 27T brushed motors. It is believed the 27T motor will have an advantage and most racers will continue the brushed technology therefore giving the membership another year of preparation in the gathering of BL equipment.'


WHY WOULD YOU EVER WANT A BETTER TECHNOLOGY TO BE SLOWER!!
Who does that benefit? Certainly not the racer. The better technology should be allowed to be faster!!! You have tried to balance the shortcomings of older technology by hamstringing the new technology. That's ridiculous!! If you want to slow down stock racing, fine but don't try to use this as a mechanism to do so. You have now placed ROAR in a position to have to outright ban stock brushed motors in order to allow a superior technology to be competitively viable.

I'm sorry Dawn I really appreciate what a thankless job it is to do what you do but ROAR blew this one. I hope you can muster the temerity to change course next year. The sooner the better.
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Old 01-17-2008, 05:55 AM   #992
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Mod is for going faster. STock is not about pushing to the next level of speed. Thats what mod is about.

Stock is about going slower but also having triple the racers you find in mod. Or in my case all the racers in stock and none racing mod.
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Old 01-17-2008, 06:05 AM   #993
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Joel,
I'm not comparing Stock and Mod, I'm comparing brushed stock to brushless stock. I agree Stock be it brushed or brushless should be slower, but you do not achieve that by hampering a superior technology. All that does is promote the inferior "faster" technology.
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Old 01-17-2008, 06:30 AM   #994
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I think the problem that ROAR had to deal with is the fact that you can't get a brushless motor to run exactly the same as a brushed motor. This left them with two options: 1) make the brushless motor a little faster and listen to the brushed guys complain. 2) make brushless a little slower (in most cases) and listen to the brushless guys complain.

They chose option 2. I'm not real scared about it to be honest. The 17.5's are pretty new and they'll get faster just like the ROAR 91 motors got faster. I think you'll see entire clubs go brushless in stock because it's cheaper in the long run and not because it's faster.

All of the guys that just want more speed can simply move up to a faster class. We have a "spec" class just for them and they should use it.

Most of the brushless and LiPo guys are so happy about getting brushless into the rules that they won't complain much.
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Old 01-17-2008, 06:46 AM   #995
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... The 17.5's are pretty new and they'll get faster just like the ROAR 91 motors got faster. I think you'll see entire clubs go brushless in stock because it's cheaper in the long run and not because it's faster...
All of the guys that just want more speed can simply move up to a faster class. .
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Old 01-17-2008, 06:55 AM   #996
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Most of the brushless and LiPo guys are so happy about getting brushless into the rules that they won't complain much.
Agreed. ROAR apparently constructed the classes based on the premise that there are a lot of racers out there who still have a bunch of 27T and 19T motors and want to get some use out of them before they switch over to BL. If 13.5 replaces brushed stock and mod becomes a more robust class (without 19T) at regional and national events in 2009, it will be worth it. Having only two classes at big races will allow people to compete against a larger pool of racers and it might raise the number of entries because racers would likely have to take less time off work in order to attend one of them.
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Old 01-17-2008, 07:04 AM   #997
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Originally Posted by Leodis View Post
Agreed. ROAR apparently constructed the classes based on the premise that there are a lot of racers out there who still have a bunch of 27T and 19T motors and want to get some use out of them before they switch over to BL. If 13.5 replaces brushed stock and mod becomes a more robust class (without 19T) at regional and national events in 2009, it will be worth it. Having only two classes at big races will allow people to compete against a larger pool of racers and it might raise the number of entries because racers would likely have to take less time off work in order to attend one of them.
Exactly.
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Old 01-17-2008, 07:07 AM   #998
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Originally Posted by Thugs Bunny View Post
Joel,
I'm not comparing Stock and Mod, I'm comparing brushed stock to brushless stock. I agree Stock be it brushed or brushless should be slower, but you do not achieve that by hampering a superior technology. All that does is promote the inferior "faster" technology.

not trying to do that at all... trying to allow the membership who have 27T's to make the move, should they choose. ROAR doesn't decide what you run - ROAR gives you the option and you make the choice. Run 17.5 if its what is better for you or run 27T.

And, the motor companies get a year to work out how they are going to make the move as well by watching what their racers do.

Hard enough making big changes.. altering the status quo... but it had to be done. But, we did it in steps to give everyone time to adjust.

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Old 01-17-2008, 07:11 AM   #999
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=The 17.5's are pretty new and they'll get faster just like the ROAR 91 motors got faster. I think you'll see entire clubs go brushless in stock because it's cheaper AND EASIER in the long run and not because it's faster.
All of the guys that just want more speed can simply move up to a faster class.
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Old 01-17-2008, 07:24 AM   #1000
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Originally Posted by Thugs Bunny View Post

WHY WOULD YOU EVER WANT A BETTER TECHNOLOGY TO BE SLOWER!!


Have you actually tried the "stock equivelent", or is this a comment from "the rear"
Dont knock it till you try it. Just like others say it will only get faster (compare midnight to co27, as crazy as that sounds)
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Old 01-17-2008, 08:57 AM   #1001
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I'm a big supporter of brushless motors and my raceway and its racers has been pushing brushless for some time now but I have to agree with what ROAR is doing with the rules. The stock class (17.5 and 27T together) for this year and superstock class (13.5) for 2009 is heading electric racing in the right direction. One year goes fast and this will give ROAR a chance to further evaluate what to do for the stock class in the future.
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Old 01-17-2008, 09:02 AM   #1002
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thugs Bunny View Post
WHY WOULD YOU EVER WANT A BETTER TECHNOLOGY TO BE SLOWER!!
Who does that benefit? Certainly not the racer. The better technology should be allowed to be faster!!!
How would faster motors benefit racers?

I see the advantage of brushless over brushed motors, but I don't see how a faster stock class motor would benefit racers. Especially in electric r/c car racing where their are faster motor specific classes such as 19 turn or open modified. I can see how a slower stock class would benefit racers though. I'm happy with ROAR's decision.
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Old 01-17-2008, 09:16 AM   #1003
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Originally Posted by Thugs Bunny View Post
Well, as always, I'll be the A**hole.


WHY WOULD YOU EVER WANT A BETTER TECHNOLOGY TO BE SLOWER!!
Who does that benefit? Certainly not the racer. The better technology should be allowed to be faster!!!
Are you kidding me? This is why it takes so long to get things done.
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Old 01-17-2008, 09:24 AM   #1004
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If anything, I would say ROAR is ahead of the curve by going with the 17.5.
They went from being 2 steps behind to being one step ahead...all within 2 months.

Dawn, you should run for President of the US.
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Old 01-17-2008, 09:57 AM   #1005
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Dawn, you should run for President of the US.
Nah.... way too much pressure.... and how can that job be fun?
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