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Old 01-13-2008, 06:37 PM   #856
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This past weekend at the January Jam at RC Madness 13.5/27T ran together and 10.5/19T ran together and it went perfectly smooth. I didn't hear of anybody complaining about the motors. Run what you want. And Brushed Won. ROAR shoud just keep it like this and add a 17.5 class for the novice guy's. Adding this class won't be deluting the other classes because most people will keep running what classes there are now and that class will get full with all the new people that want to join this awsome hobby and not feel intimidated. And when there ready they can move up to the 13.5 class. (Oh Yeah, and no sponsored drivers allowed in the 17.5 class) By the time the brushless motors get noticibly better than the brushed most people will be running brushless motors anyway.
Mod is just that mod and that pretty much is only at the big races anyway so the clubs will be back to the original 3 classes like it was a few years ago.

This is for Indoor Touring car....1/12 scale there is a big difference.

For the large events they could list what the approved motors are. No handouts so you could have cheaper entry fees. And have the motors that will be used teched and marked when signing in for the race. For the brushless motors they could put some kind of hardening putty on them to make sure they aren't opened. If something needs to be replaced inside the can just have it teched again and remarked.

Well this sounds good on paper
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Last edited by panther420; 01-13-2008 at 07:14 PM.
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Old 01-13-2008, 07:54 PM   #857
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I would be interested to know who ran what. Until some of the "Big Names" (and you know who they are) start using brushless we really won't have a good comparison.
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Old 01-13-2008, 09:24 PM   #858
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ROAR shoud just keep it like this and add a 17.5 class for the novice guy's. Adding this class won't be deluting the other classes because most people will keep running what classes there are now and that class will get full with all the new people that want to join this awsome hobby and not feel intimidated. And when there ready they can move up to the 13.5 class. (Oh Yeah, and no sponsored drivers allowed in the 17.5 class)
This works GREAT in clubs that get enough novice-ability racers at once to hold a specific class for them. For the OTHER 90+% of clubs out here though we NEVER get even 3 novice-level racers at a time. It absolutely won't work , as described OR intended, to have a fourth power level that never gets used. The low power level HAS to be beginner-friendlier, and that same COMPARATIVELY low power level will provide closer racing than the more experienced racers have ever had. Well...at least since the days of sealed-can Stock.
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Old 01-14-2008, 12:31 AM   #859
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So, we're sitting around the track tonight.

The old sealed endbell motors.
"If only we could change the brushes we could save money, buy fewer motors and make the sport easier, cheaper and attract more interest.

and we got motors with removable brushes. Half the people were convinced it would be the death of the sport.

"If only we could take the arms out to true them, we could save money make the sport easier, cheaper and attract more interest. Half the people were convinced it would encourage and make it easier to cheat.

We got modular motors, completely rebuildable.

Now the thought it is, "It's to complicated and expensive". What we really need is a motor that lasts longer, requires less equipment, and less tinkering. we could save money, buy fewer motors and make the sport easier, cheaper and attract more interest.

Didn't we already have that? ...lol...

Let's look at batterys.

Back in the day, somebody handed you a battery... you ran it. Then we wanted to match them, and we got that. we could save money make the sport easier, cheaper and attract more interest.

Then we wanted more capacity and we got that. and more voltage, then more capacity, we got that. we could save money make the sport easier, cheaper and attract more interest if the cells had more run time, you wouldn't need as good a pack.

Until finally, no surprise, sub-c's put out like crazy, but perhaps not as durable as could be... The masses pro-claimed the cells are to much work

So now, people want to look at lipo. Can't mess with that, we could save money make the sport easier, cheaper and attract more interest if only you couldn't mess with the cells and all that equipment.

Some tongue in cheek humor for ya.
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Old 01-14-2008, 12:34 AM   #860
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Some tongue in cheek humor for ya.
Yeah, and if it wasn't such an accurate Reader's Digest Condensed 20 Year History of RC I'd be laughing my ass off.

Unfortunately, we've lived it. And STILL some haven't learned the lessons of history.
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Old 01-14-2008, 01:22 AM   #861
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...I loved racing 6 cell + mabuchi motors Way back when (until guys learned to Squeeze cans and make more power...and/or the guys who would show up with 20 motors with various tricks done to them)

...the old days of batteries were never fun - always chasing the big budget guys who were willing to use "throw a way" packs with at least one or two NEW packs per race, just to win a local club race...

Non-rebuildable STOCK motors were kind of the same way...when you run on a shoestring buget against guys who will just BURN UP a motor every run if they have to to win...it's not a lot of fun.

Over the years I've found it's NOT the equipment so much - as it is the willingness of SOME racers to OUT SPEND and try SO hard to buy WINS even at the local level races...that it takes the FUN out of the hobby for many, many others.

Thankfully, I race now with a pretty good group of guys who mostly all have a similar vision and focus.

Granted, I'm currently pushing for and supporting LIPO and B/L motors in a big way (as I did w/ rebuildable brushed stock motors and 19t motors a few years ago)

Even without these technologies - I'm not going anywhere, I'll still be racing what ever it takes to keep racing. I enjoy this hobby way too much.

I spend a lot more of MY personal racing budget PUTTING ON races than I do on my equipment to RACE these days...and I do this because I want OTHER people to be able to continue to enjoy the hobby I've enjoyed for over 20+ years.

Thankfully, over the past few years I've also been able to keep a few small r/c companies interest in helping us keep racing alive via sponsorships for our series. Without these companies support - providing a place for guys to race would really be much more difficult.

THANK YOU TO EVERYONE WHO HELPED ME KEEP R/C OVAL RACING ALIVE IN Southern California during '07, and I look forward to ALL who will be involved in '08.

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Old 01-14-2008, 01:49 AM   #862
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RIP Brushed motors
Thank You for your contributions to this thread MR. U.K. racer.


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Old 01-14-2008, 06:00 AM   #863
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Thank You for your contributions to this thread MR. U.K. racer.


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Well there's too much waffle going on here

Every one should be in the same class 1/10 electric onroad.

1 Class, that's it.

13.5/27 or 19t/10.5 are the 2 logical choices

Let mod die and forget about it, it's past it's sell by date.

If clubs really want an extra slow class that is up to them, should not be roars responsibility.

Extra classes always dilutes the racing and segragates racers
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Old 01-14-2008, 07:10 AM   #864
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Heres the way I see it. We went from an adjustable curve in the ESC and locked timing and price on a limited price motor. To a open speed control, open timing and open price. I would love to hook up 4 different brushless speed controls with various motors on my Turbodyno and see how they run. As the timing is changed in the Speed control in most brushless systems you would have to dyno all the speed controls and motors as a pair or team. Once a stable replacement was found with a suitable torque and RPM limit, all the speed controls would have to lock down their timing curves and seal off the motor cans to find something "stock". Then the motor suppliers should offer this to us at maximum price just like brushed stock. I also think Bob Stormer should send all the speed controls and motors to me to test just because he is a nice guy and he would like to see what the results are .
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Old 01-14-2008, 07:20 AM   #865
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What about 5cell racing...will that catch on here in the States like it has overseas...UK, Asia, etc? If so where does that leave 7.4 lipo packs like Orion, Core, Reedy, etc. make.

Just wondering.
5cell will make it a bigger battery war. At this years Reedy race they were killer when new but after a few runs the guys at club races could make run time. Once they put on a 6th cell they made run time. I don't know if this is what everyone experienced but this is what I saw in the norcal area.
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Old 01-14-2008, 08:13 AM   #866
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Non-rebuildable STOCK motors were kind of the same way...when you run on a shoestring buget against guys who will just BURN UP a motor every run if they have to to win...it's not a lot of fun.
We had an answer for that. We ran modified! Why? Because it was cheaper to run modified. Why was it cheaper? Because you could rebuild a modified motor, and you couldn't rebuild a stock.

So what happened? Those of us who were against rebuildable stock motors were afraid that someone with cubic dollars could buy a hundred motors and try each arm in each can, finding the best motor of the lot. We though this would kill stock racing.

We were wrong. Rebuildable stock motors did make it cheaper to run stock, so much so that racers abandoned modified to the point where (at least in carpet on road) only the best factory sponsored driver who practice 40 hours a week and get new cars built for them for every big race could race it.

Rebuildable stock motors didn't kill stock, it killed modified!
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Old 01-14-2008, 08:38 AM   #867
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Rebuildable stock motors didn't kill stock, it killed modified!
That's not what's happening in most places. Mod is very popular because there is no such thing as stock, it's just a motor limitation. It is far more expensive to run stock because it demands the best batteries. I said it in the other ROAR BL thread, ROAR should be considering what amount of speed is appropriate for stock class and pick the BL motor that performs that way without consideration for a brushed equivalent. We need to do away with brushed stock all together. Brushed motors defeat the purpose of stock racing. A spec battery (lipo) would be a good idea too, no matter what spec control you place on the motor, it's still not "stock" if the power source is variable.

How about something like a 13.5 with bonded rotor only?
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Old 01-14-2008, 08:54 AM   #868
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So can anyone from ROAR give us an indicator as to when the info from today will be released?? I'm sure I'm not the only one that wants to know what the rules are going to be for Nats so I can get prepared...
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Old 01-14-2008, 09:32 AM   #869
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I would love to hook up 4 different brushless speed controls with various motors on my Turbodyno and see how they run.

I ran the Novak and LRP competition speedo's on my TD with a 13.5 and they made the same power within 1 watt for each run. The punch settings on the LRP just changed the RPM range (powerband) of the motor. I would assume that it's just timing changes but in any case, it just changes the gearing.

Punch 7 and 8 make the Novak 13.5 run a little loopy be the way. 3-6 seemed to run the best/most efficient at 5 volts.
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Old 01-14-2008, 09:46 AM   #870
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Probably still a while before we attend that funeral.
Dude who R you fooling ....

They R already on the endangered list ...
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