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Old 01-02-2008, 08:53 PM   #61
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OK...I got that, but if we do want to run our gear in a sanctioned race, we are screwed if the class doesn't exist.
Kevin,

I understand that issue of yours as well. I think what you need to realize is that unless the Nat's comes to your "Home" track, the cost of traveling and food, lodging, car prep, etc means that buying the correct equipment is one of the lesser costs associated with big races. We are talking about racing at almost the highest level. It's not for the faint of heart. The racers that you would compete against are highly skilled and mostly sponsored.

To my knowledge the class with the "silver can" motors never existed at the National levels. Even back in the early 80's the motors are different to what your talking about.

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Old 01-02-2008, 08:54 PM   #62
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Ike,

You have a point here, this is the frustrating about BL motors in 1/12th (except mod 1/12th) and that getting proper gearing. There is only so much room in there. I do have a question for you though as I honestly don't know....Is it possible to get the correct gearing easily with a 13.5 BL motor?

Steve

Steve,

In touring cars no-one here has had a problem finding gearing, eg: if you were running a rollout of 36 with your CO27, you'd go up to around 38 with your 13.5 bonded motor. So it's only a couple of teeth on the pinion.

Can't help with 1:12 sorry

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Old 01-02-2008, 08:55 PM   #63
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I'm sorry, but making 17.5 the new stock equivalent seems like a great way for trinity to sell some more brushed motors. The top rpm of a 13.5 motor is a little higher than a tuned stock motor, what it has much more of is torque. This makes the car HARDER to drive for the average racer. I see many drivers with 13.5 motors go to the lowest punch setting and use negative expo on the throttle to make the car smooth.

Going to the 17.5 will result in a motor with a slower rpm than stock but still a little more torque. So racers will gear the 17.5 to the moon to get the rpm back, and they will run the motors hot.

Speed is not what hurts the newbie racer. All they have to do is dial back the throttle percentage. What hurts the novice racer is the perception of not enough speed, and what they have to do to get that speed (cutting comms, changing brushes between rounds, buying better batteries, etc.)

The 13.5 brushless motor was doing a great job of killing off the brushed motor, now with the rumors of the 17.5, the brushed motor will be reborn.

This is a step backward.

As for the 13.5 causing the poor newbie to break their car, I didn't hear the same concern when the newbie straps a 9t mod into their car.
Agreed, this is exactly the point I was trying to get across in one of my posts above. If 17.5 and 27T is grouped together ROAR will have done nothing to advance the hobby. I don't know what the answer is, but I'm pretty sure 17.5 in it's current form is not it unless they just make it an all brushless class.
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Old 01-02-2008, 08:57 PM   #64
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in all seriousness.. you guys aren't helping.

17.5 is ONE MFG... that's the problem I have with completely sanctioning a motor that says this...

whatever happened to the days of new = stock and a few weeks later when you conquered your first novice A main you moved to modified? LOL
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Old 01-02-2008, 09:06 PM   #65
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Steve...

Talk to B. Bodine. 1/12 needs to go an entirely different direction since LiPo is going to make a HUGE change anyway. He has some GREAT ideas...
Scottrik,

You bring up the biggest concern about 1/12th that I have, which is what to do about LIPOs. I dearly love 1/12th...always have. I mostly try to run mod. The speeds that these cars reach now makes a mod car almost uncontrollable except for the top 25 or so racers. Some like myself are holding on for dear life watching our cars "Shake a shimmy" all over the track. Lipos are very light, they also have 3.7 volts or 7.4 volts. There is not a lot of room for balancing weights or weights meant to heavy up a lipo car. I could not stand having to use receiver packs in the old days, I can't say that I am excited either to use a lipo regulator either.

Lots of issues to address here......not sure what the solution is. Bring back the TOJ, sanyo 2000's, and 15 triple Peak Performance motors with Paragon

Steve
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Old 01-02-2008, 09:08 PM   #66
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Lots of issues to address here......not sure what the solution is. Bring back the TOJ, sanyo 2000's, and 15 triple Peak Performance motors with Paragon
Woohoo - on a 235mm 1/10th scale CHASSIE!!
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Old 01-02-2008, 09:12 PM   #67
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Kevin,

I understand that issue of yours as well. I think what you need to realize is that unless the Nat's comes to your "Home" track, the cost of traveling and food, lodging, car prep, etc means that buying the correct equipment is one of the lesser costs associated with big races. We are talking about racing at almost the highest level.
Clearly I'm nowhere near that level...but I thought there were other more local ROAR sanctioned events that were available to us...OK...guess I got the cart before the horse on that. But, dont ROAR's standards usually set the tone (classes) for local club racing as well (for the most part).
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Old 01-02-2008, 09:12 PM   #68
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Steve,

In touring cars no-one here has had a problem finding gearing, eg: if you were running a rollout of 36 with your CO27, you'd go up to around 38 with your 13.5 bonded motor. So it's only a couple of teeth on the pinion.

Can't help with 1:12 sorry

Cheers
Aaron
Aaron,

Thanks for your reply. 1/12th is what is was wondering about. I recently sold a 1/12th car that I was pretty excited about, but when I started reading about what gear ratio guys were running with 10.5 BL motors, I realized that this design did not allow enough room to get the gearing without finding some special spurs that would only be stocked for a 1/12th scale car. Were talking about the 72t 64p spurs that a few companies are starting to make, so I switched to a different designed car.

Steve
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Old 01-02-2008, 09:13 PM   #69
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Woohoo - on a 235mm 1/10th scale CHASSIE!!
I'm in!
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Old 01-02-2008, 09:13 PM   #70
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if we get rid of one class 13.5 for example where does it leave the "new fresh Kids/people" in the hobby is there home track has a regional event does it leave them not a class to race in that week

i like
17.5 newb/novice class
13.5 pro stock
10.5 super stock
OPEN MOD

4 total class in TC and the same for 12th, maybe even oval???

off-road 10th scale too same 4 classes above???can use the same equipment

then it is only a couple years until 8th scale electric pan car and 8th scale electric buggy!!!

lets just worry about on-road 10th/12th scale right now though . . .LOL

glad to see an actually positive debate on a message board . . .who would have thought

would like to see some of the factory mfg. thoughts
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Old 01-02-2008, 09:14 PM   #71
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in all seriousness.. you guys aren't helping.

17.5 is ONE MFG... that's the problem I have with completely sanctioning a motor that says this...

whatever happened to the days of new = stock and a few weeks later when you conquered your first novice A main you moved to modified? LOL
Those days died when stock racers started getting full sponsorships. Back in the day, when 1/12th ruled onroad, if you wanted a sponsorship you raced mod, at least on the club level. So, if you wanted to be sponsored (the goal of many young RC drivers) you moved on to mod as soon as you could consistently do well and win in stock. Nowadays there is little motivation to ever leave stock since a racer can get every sponsorship known to man as a stock racer. IMO sponsored racers should never have been allowed to stay in stock class racing, and if someone finishes in the top 3 in stock at big races more than once they should not be allowed to participate in stock class in those races in the future.
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Old 01-02-2008, 09:15 PM   #72
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Clearly I'm nowhere near that level...but I thought there were other more local ROAR sanctioned events that were available to us...OK...guess I got the cart before the horse on that. But, dont ROAR's standards usually set the tone (classes) for local club racing as well (for the most part).
Yes, they do. They always have. Probably always will. Doug at SIR and during the summer for us, the guys at FWR will listen to the masses and make subtle changes that will make the locals happy. Even George, ok probably not George.

Steve

Someday you and I will be at the track at the same time and we will finally meet.
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Old 01-02-2008, 09:17 PM   #73
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72t 64p spurs
Who's got 72's? Smallest I can find are 76s... I want some 72's...!!!

(Ran 76/56 with the 21.5 B/L motor on the 250 meter Bicycle Velodrome...at 52+ MPH) LOL
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Old 01-02-2008, 09:20 PM   #74
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in all seriousness.. you guys aren't helping.

17.5 is ONE MFG... that's the problem I have with completely sanctioning a motor that says this...
Exactly...just as I was saying. Novak started this whole thing, with the first 13.5, now their the first 17.5 and you guys want to jump on the bandwagon that that is now the second "new stock equivalent Novak deleloped" and throw more $$ in their pocket.

Glad to see "The Man" has a grip.
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Old 01-02-2008, 09:24 PM   #75
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Aaron,

Thanks for your reply. 1/12th is what is was wondering about. I recently sold a 1/12th car that I was pretty excited about, but when I started reading about what gear ratio guys were running with 10.5 BL motors, I realized that this design did not allow enough room to get the gearing without finding some special spurs that would only be stocked for a 1/12th scale car. Were talking about the 72t 64p spurs that a few companies are starting to make, so I switched to a different designed car.

Steve
Well, even with 27T, some cars that use the AE T-bar will have trouble getting enough gear with the commonly used 96-100t spur. However, I believe all the other cars out there will allow enough gear for 13.5 and 10.5. But again, I'm not positive on this and hope someone else chimes in.
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