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Old 01-08-2008, 08:41 PM   #676
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Why not just run one class like nitro does. Just run a pro & a sportsman class. @ the local tracks require that the drivers run a certant number of laps in a heat to get to move up to the pro class. When you have 4 different classes you will end up w/ some very small classes. 20 players split over 4 classes wouldn't even fill most tracks. However, 20 people in the same class would make for some great racing.
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Old 01-08-2008, 08:48 PM   #677
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Some (that reads "some" not all) racers seem to looking after your own personal situation based on expenses already spent before any "official" rules were adopted ROAR, which is about to happen. You guys that spent money on 13.5's did it on your own free will.......this certainly was not forced due to rules nor a mass influx of the motor on your local scene and now there is a possibility that it may not be legal in some or all forms of 1/10th racing. Certainly ROAR is not to blame for this and they shouldn't be to blame if the rules don't come out in favor of the 13.5 motor.

Maybe both the 17.5 and the 13.5 will be legal. Is there a hidden meaning in post #543

I've ran stock for many, many years from club races (at times, 4 week-ends a month) to lots of state races to several nationals (1997, 2005 on-road nats, 1999 and 2000 carpet nats) and the number of green machines, monsters, silver cans, CO27's, handouts, e-brushes, f-brushes, 4499's, putnam brushes, drilled brushes, slotted brushes.....and sometimes all of those combos in the same year......thank God for brushless!!!

You mean to tell me the cost of buying one 17.5 which could last you for 1 or 2 years is worth getting so defensively postured over? Can we please think down the road on this subject and the good of the hobby instead of what you already have in your car...please...no one ever promised you a 13.5 or even a 10.5 for that matter would be deemed ROAR legal.

Once again, these are guidelines of the Nats and you should have a voice in your local club racing. You can run whatever best suits your club. That's why it's a "club". It is encouraged by ROAR and its been said over and over.
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Old 01-08-2008, 08:49 PM   #678
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Originally Posted by C_O_jones View Post
Where do you get this info? You run a 17.5 yet?
Cant say I have Fred....have you run a 13.5 yet??

Read thru the posts and most that have run a 17.5 in a sedan agree that they dont have the power a 27T has. 13.5 was very close to the 27T before sintered rotors pushed them slightly ahead (and questionable to a well tuned 27T). I've owned 6 total BL over the last 1 1/2 years and know that an increase in 4 BL turns is significant, that much I'll say.
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Old 01-08-2008, 08:56 PM   #679
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I might add that since the 27T will dominate the 17.5's
Id take that bet any day.


by the way, your avatar is awesome (with a hint of freakyness)
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Old 01-08-2008, 09:02 PM   #680
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Read thru the posts and most that have run a 17.5 in a sedan agree that they dont have the power a 27T has. 13.5 was very close to the 27T before sintered rotors pushed them slightly ahead (and questionable to a well tuned 27T). I've owned 6 total BL over the last 1 1/2 years and know that an increase in 4 BL turns is significant, that much I'll say.
power delivery is different, I wont argue that (17.5 vs. 27t), but lap time dont lie, as Im a smidge quicker with a 17.5 (I dont care whos name is on the 27t either)
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Old 01-08-2008, 09:04 PM   #681
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Fred....here is a quote straight from the manufacturer...the only one that makes a 17.5, and there is no 15.5 out there yet (that I'm aware of)

http://www.rctech.net/forum/showpost...2&postcount=81

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Weiss View Post
Interesting discussion we have going on in here...

First of all I'd like to quash any notion that Novak has some master plan to release slower motors in succession in a ploy to make everyone buy them one after another.

People tell us they want slower motors than what we have available... we do testing...we have third party testers test it... if everything seems good we release it.

Brushless technology has been advancing very quickly over the last few years and as mentioned before the 13.5 with a bonded rotor and a sintered rotor are two completely different beasts.

The 17.5 was a motor that we made available because some oval organizations specifically asked for a significantly slower motor that they could use... as word of this motor spread, demand for it grew and then it was put into full production/distribution.

As far as what motors are equal to others today it seems that most people tend to agree that the 10.5 and the 19T brushed motors seem fairly equal... they each have their own advantages in different aspects.

Then you get to the stock issue... 13.5 with a sintered rotor seems to be too fast when compared with the 27T brushed motors... so maybe a slower wind is in order...? enter talk of using the 17.5.

The 17.5 is definately slower...maybe too slow if you're looking for an equivalent?
Maybe a 15.5 with a sintered rotor is a better match?

Is equality really what we need anyways?

Going to alot of the big races there are times when the 19T times are only a bit slower than the full blown modified times... there is definately some credibility in the idea that there should be a larger differential in speed among the classes.

IE: If "stock" class was so slow that the normal stock guys wouldn't enjoy it... it would compell them to step up to the "intermediate" class (somewhere between current stock and 19T speeds)... and then you'd have a full blown modified class above that for those who don't feel challenged enough by the "intermediate" class
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Old 01-08-2008, 09:06 PM   #682
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Originally Posted by ASM View Post
Some (that reads "some" not all) racers seem to looking after your own personal situation based on expenses already spent before any "official" rules were adopted ROAR, which is about to happen. You guys that spent money on 13.5's did it on your own free will.......this certainly was not forced due to rules nor a mass influx of the motor on your local scene and now there is a possibility that it may not be legal in some or all forms of 1/10th racing. Certainly ROAR is not to blame for this and they shouldn't be to blame if the rules don't come out in favor of the 13.5 motor.

Maybe both the 17.5 and the 13.5 will be legal. Is there a hidden meaning in post #543

I've ran stock for many, many years from club races (at times, 4 week-ends a month) to lots of state races to several nationals (1997, 2005 on-road nats, 1999 and 2000 carpet nats) and the number of green machines, monsters, silver cans, CO27's, handouts, e-brushes, f-brushes, 4499's, putnam brushes, drilled brushes, slotted brushes.....and sometimes all of those combos in the same year......thank God for brushless!!!

You mean to tell me the cost of buying one 17.5 which could last you for 1 or 2 years is worth getting so defensively postured over? Can we please think down the road on this subject and the good of the hobby instead of what you already have in your car...please...no one ever promised you a 13.5 or even a 10.5 for that matter would be deemed ROAR legal.

Once again, these are guidelines of the Nats and you should have a voice in your local club racing. You can run whatever best suits your club. That's why it's a "club". It is encouraged by ROAR and its been said over and over.
I am not sure if this was aimed at me, but I was not getting defensively postured over anything. All I was saying is some people can't afford the motor of the week. When I got my 13.5 that was the most used motor in my area. I will get whatever motor is the right one for my track based on rules. It just would be nice to have a guidlines set by the major sanctioning body of our hobby. When that happens I think everything will settle into place and everyone will be able to comfortably buy the right motor for their needs without feeling it will be obslolet a week later.

I think the Novak race is a great starting point of data being it is the first all Brushless Race in TC. Alot can be learned from the data and talking with the participants of that race.
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Old 01-08-2008, 09:08 PM   #683
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LRP make a 15.5.

https://www.ssl-stormerhobbies.com/c...ns&pn=LRP50380
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Old 01-08-2008, 09:11 PM   #684
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Originally Posted by Bob-Stormer View Post
Due to inconsistencies within a drivers own race program. If you have enough drivers to make a decent comparison (club racing doesn't work), the best qualified driver in each class would give you the best view of what is ABSOLUTELY capable of each motor/class (on that track on that day). The mains are never a good example of the best case scenario's.

Anybody have the qualifying and lap times from the Novak?


Thanks,
-Bob
Josh and Mike ran 9.6's in Mod and both ran 9.9's in 10.5. Based off their finishes I guess you would have to say they were the fastest in each class..1 and 2...both classes.

From a previous post Brad Johnson was about .20+ slower in 13.5 to 10.5.

From the fastest Mod guys to the fastest 13.5 looks to be about .7.

I think at Cleveland the difference was over one second from Mod to Stock. Most Mod guys ran brushless at Cleveland and of course the stock was a rather slow 27t brushed.

So from that we can say.......heck I don't know what all that means...... I guess Stock is slower than Mod with or with out brushes.
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Old 01-08-2008, 09:21 PM   #685
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Interesting...I stand corrected, that is a "sports edition" I believe though. I'm sure a pro edition could be done...they did it with the 17.5.
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Old 01-08-2008, 09:24 PM   #686
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Originally Posted by C_O_jones View Post
Just out of curiosity, where do you get all of this info?
I'm not out to offend you, just want to know.
No one in my area has used a 17.5 or 15.5
A few people at our track are running the 17.5 in 1/12th because the 13.5 is way faster than a good stock, I don't mean the difference between 27t and 13.5 in tc, I mean it is like putting a 19t in your 1/12th. Now many people will argue that a 13.5 in tc is close to a 19t, and if you haven't cut the comm in 10 runs they are right. However when comparing a race ready 19t to a 13.5 there is a difference, and I can turn faster laps with the 19t. Granted not much faster but I race on a small track. Where was I going? Yes, the 17.5 is comparable to a 27t in 1/12, but just doesn't have the gonads for tc, now maybe racing against some green machines and old monsters it would be different, but a race ready Co27 will pull better out of the corners in tc. Don't get me started on the gearing. Because of this I speculate that a 15.5 would be the answer for tc, but seeing how the 17.5 is pretty close in 1/12th the 15.5 would have the advantage in that class. But since there is not a 15.5, it is just that, speculation. Anyways, that is the reasoning behind that post. EDIT: Guess I was wrong, see above post.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob-Stormer
How can we use existing equipment, not technology down the road, to make more people more competitive? I think people confuse the word competitive with the word faster. They are not the same, not really.
Sorry Bob, I don't quite agree. Not to toot my own horn, but I am a pretty fast tc driver in my area, while I have no doubts that my lunch would be handed to me at a big race, I nonetheless hold my own where I race. And I don't want to have to slow down just because some other guy can't drive his car a couple of inches from the dots with the motor he is running. I put in a lot of time to be able to hit my marks, and it may be wrong of me to say it, but maybe the other guys should just practice more.
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Old 01-08-2008, 09:30 PM   #687
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Originally Posted by Ted Flack
So from that we can say.......heck I don't know what all that means...... I guess Stock is slower than Mod with or with out brushes.
That was funny
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Old 01-08-2008, 09:48 PM   #688
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Originally Posted by party_wagon View Post
Why not just run one class like nitro does. Just run a pro & a sportsman class. @ the local tracks require that the drivers run a certant number of laps in a heat to get to move up to the pro class. When you have 4 different classes you will end up w/ some very small classes. 20 players split over 4 classes wouldn't even fill most tracks. However, 20 people in the same class would make for some great racing.
Aren't there three nitro classes for onroad?
1/10th
270mm
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Old 01-08-2008, 09:56 PM   #689
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Originally Posted by Verndog View Post
Fred....here is a quote straight from the manufacturer...the only one that makes a 17.5, and there is no 15.5 out there yet (that I'm aware of)

http://www.rctech.net/forum/showpost...2&postcount=81

great, quote the rep from the company that originally told you the 13.5 is the stock brushed equivilant.

And if 4 turns on a BL make such a huge difference, then why is the 13.5 sooo close to a 10.5 ?
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Old 01-08-2008, 10:15 PM   #690
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Originally Posted by trilerian View Post
A few people at our track are running the 17.5 in 1/12th because the 13.5 is way faster than a good stock, I don't mean the difference between 27t and 13.5 in tc, I mean it is like putting a 19t in your 1/12th. Now many people will argue that a 13.5 in tc is close to a 19t, and if you haven't cut the comm in 10 runs they are right. However when comparing a race ready 19t to a 13.5 there is a difference, and I can turn faster laps with the 19t. Granted not much faster but I race on a small track. Where was I going? Yes, the 17.5 is comparable to a 27t in 1/12, but just doesn't have the gonads for tc, now maybe racing against some green machines and old monsters it would be different, but a race ready Co27 will pull better out of the corners in tc. Don't get me started on the gearing. Because of this I speculate that a 15.5 would be the answer for tc, but seeing how the 17.5 is pretty close in 1/12th the 15.5 would have the advantage in that class. But since there is not a 15.5, it is just that, speculation. Anyways, that is the reasoning behind that post.
Thanks, that's very informative.
Here in the NorthWest we run 19t 1/12th in our series and at the local track, growing class which is good news and a blast to drive.
The 13.5 has pretty much killed off the 27t with 8min races locally, nothing wrong with that. Just can't get enough interest for a 19t/10.5 rubber class there, even though the 19t/10.5 is the largest sedan class, 20+ cars in the series. The 10.5 and 19t work well together, well for now anyway.
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