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Old 01-08-2008, 05:48 PM   #661
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Originally Posted by dawnsanchez
Then, for you... don't. Go from 17.5 and run that 13.5 in your 19T class and then when your skill set allows, put in a 10.5 and do what you can do...
Brian - this is not what I meant towards you and I apologize for that inference. The problem with message forums is intent is rarely understood when writing quickly and responding. No excuses. I should have found a better way to state that.

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Old 01-08-2008, 06:01 PM   #662
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Originally Posted by trailranger View Post
Novice (I suggest 17.5 or 21.5)
Intermediate ( I suggest 13.5)
Modified (I suggest 10.5)
Pro Modified (OPEN BL)
This is as close as i gets to fair for all IMO.
Many points made about 27T vs 17.5 is are valid...and I might add that since the 27T will dominate the 17.5's then that would promote the veterans that dont want to convert (or anyone interested in winning) to stick to stock 27T, and virtually eliminate the 17.5 before it gets started, and if it does "trickle down" to club level the newbies buying BL will be outskilled and outguned. Doesn't weighing the favor to the old technology promote it and discourage new technology therefore the newbie (newbies do not want old technology)??
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Old 01-08-2008, 06:33 PM   #663
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Originally Posted by Verndog View Post
This is as close as i gets to fair for all IMO.
Many points made about 27T vs 17.5 is are valid...and I might add that since the 27T will dominate the 17.5's then that would promote the veterans that dont want to convert (or anyone interested in winning) to stick to stock 27T, and virtually eliminate the 17.5 before it gets started, and if it does "trickle down" to club level the newbies buying BL will be outskilled and outguned. Doesn't weighing the favor to the old technology promote it and discourage new technology therefore the newbie (newbies do not want old technology)??
Where do you get this info? You run a 17.5 yet?

A lot of the 13.5 people are now all against the 17.5 for stock.
17.5 is mostly in oval and last weekend, the Novack race where they did NOT compete against 27t brushed.

Can anyone out there actually give us some lap comparisons?

Seems to me that the 13.5's are blowing a lot of smoke!
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Old 01-08-2008, 06:40 PM   #664
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I rarely post on RC Tech, but I enjoy reading it.

IMO.

17.5 Brushless and 27 Turn = Stock
13.5 Brushless and 19 Turn = Pro Stock
Open Brushless and Open Brushed = Mod
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Old 01-08-2008, 06:53 PM   #665
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Originally Posted by Dawn Sanchez View Post
Brian - this is not what I meant towards you and I apologize for that inference. The problem with message forums is intent is rarely understood when writing quickly and responding. No excuses. I should have found a better way to state that.

Dawn

Dawn, Thanks for clarifying that statement. I appreciate you doing this in the open forum and not just a PM.

Brian
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Old 01-08-2008, 06:57 PM   #666
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"Can anyone out there actually give us some lap comparisons?"

Novak race
Picked brad because he was fast in both classes. so the lap time compaisons should be fair.

sedan 13.5 foam
1 Johnson, Brad 1 29 5:06.603 10.318
1 Johnson, Brad 1 28 5:00.457 10.405
sedan 10.5 foam
6 Johnson, Brad 6 28 5:04.844 10.165
4 Johnson, Brad 6 29 5:09.472 10.112
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Old 01-08-2008, 06:59 PM   #667
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I could care less what the classes are decided,i just like to race so with that what ever is decided make it soon so i will know what i am going to be running at the nats
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Old 01-08-2008, 07:15 PM   #668
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Originally Posted by ammdrew View Post
"Can anyone out there actually give us some lap comparisons?"

Novak race
Picked brad because he was fast in both classes. so the lap time compaisons should be fair.

sedan 13.5 foam
1 Johnson, Brad 1 29 5:06.603 10.318
1 Johnson, Brad 1 28 5:00.457 10.405
sedan 10.5 foam
6 Johnson, Brad 6 28 5:04.844 10.165
4 Johnson, Brad 6 29 5:09.472 10.112
Thanks, great times and so close.

I was looking for comp times between 27t and 17.5 or even 15.5 for onroad sedans.
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Old 01-08-2008, 07:17 PM   #669
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Originally Posted by jw92656 View Post
I rarely post on RC Tech, but I enjoy reading it.

IMO.

17.5 Brushless and 27 Turn = Stock
13.5 Brushless and 19 Turn = Pro Stock
Open Brushless and Open Brushed = Mod
Agree with you and others that have stated the same.

Dumping the one motor that has pushed the brushless revolution (13.5) and is probably owned by just about every single person out there with a brushless system makes very little sense and seems counterproductive to helping the hobby grow. If 10.5 needs to stay, fine. But don't eliminate the current bread and butter motor class. Again, this is coming from someone that has 0 money invested in a 13.5 motor.
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Old 01-08-2008, 07:30 PM   #670
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If the 13.5 is too fast and the 17.5 is too slow for stock, then what if Novak made a 15.5 or something?
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Old 01-08-2008, 07:35 PM   #671
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Originally Posted by Centerline Racing View Post
I didn't think that posting on this thread was exclusive to ROAR members. But, questions being answered seems to be relegated to such.

I like to do extensive research into an organization before joining as a member. What happens between the start of this thread and the Nats will determine if my son and I race in March at the Nats. I hope to join at that time.

Respectfully asked: What benefit does becoming a ROAR member do for ME if the 8 tracks that I race at do not require it? Does the $20 membership fee do anything for the "Club Racers" where the race directors make up their own classes and rules loosely based on ROAR?
Dont even waste your time. Buy your weekend membership for the nats and thats it. REGION 7 IS DEAD AND NOONE IS DOING ANYTHING ABOUT IT LIKE COMBINE US WITH ANOTHER REGION!!!
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Old 01-08-2008, 07:41 PM   #672
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Originally Posted by Jeff Crosson View Post
If the 13.5 is too fast and the 17.5 is too slow for stock, then what if Novak made a 15.5 or something?
I think almost from the very start of this thread its was agreed that the current level of 27 turn motors was already to fast for drivers still learning our sport/hobby, "if" 17.5 is to slow to keep up with 27t brushed, it wont stay that way long.....
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Old 01-08-2008, 07:58 PM   #673
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I wasn't going to post anything in this thread but just keep watching everything that is being said, but I couldn't resist on piping in on a couple of issues being talked about.

1. Slowing the cars down. I don't think it is really about slowing the cars down but creating a more controlable speed for newbies to learn on and for experienced drivers to have closer competition. I think 1 thing everyone has forgotten about is the reason we all started doing this in the begining was to have fun. At trackside a class was developed to bring the fun back into the hobby Vintage Trans Am using 4 cells and a 27t motor. Newbies and experts alike have been building cars for this class and every week there is a minimum of 15 cars every tuesday. the racing is close and everyone is having fun.

2. Whether everyone admits it or not the average racer is on a budget and does not race at major races. but it is major races and ROAR that set the guidelines that most tracks use. This being said a decision needs to be made on basic rules because when someone like me has to support myself and my son I can't keep changing motors because a manufacturer introduced a different turn motor and now the local track wants to run that. Indecision and consistancy of rules is what is now hurting the hobby. It is kind of a hard pill to swallow when I finally was able to get a B/L 13.5 and then find out that might not be the motor for the stock class. I need to get my son a B/L and now I don't know which motor to get.

As a budget club level racer I feel the class structure should be

Sportsman (17.5)
Stock (Choose 13.5 or 10.5 determine the motor by size of track and whether indoor or outdoor)
Mod.

Most tracks on a regular basis only run Sportsman and Stock anyway
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Old 01-08-2008, 08:09 PM   #674
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ammdrew View Post
"Can anyone out there actually give us some lap comparisons?"

Novak race
Picked brad because he was fast in both classes. so the lap time compaisons should be fair.

sedan 13.5 foam
1 Johnson, Brad 1 29 5:06.603 10.318
1 Johnson, Brad 1 28 5:00.457 10.405
sedan 10.5 foam
6 Johnson, Brad 6 28 5:04.844 10.165
4 Johnson, Brad 6 29 5:09.472 10.112
Due to inconsistencies within a drivers own race program. If you have enough drivers to make a decent comparison (club racing doesn't work), the best qualified driver in each class would give you the best view of what is ABSOLUTELY capable of each motor/class (on that track on that day). The mains are never a good example of the best case scenario's.

Anybody have the qualifying and lap times from the Novak?


Thanks,
-Bob
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Old 01-08-2008, 08:21 PM   #675
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob-Stormer View Post
Due to inconsistencies within a drivers own race program. If you have enough drivers to make a decent comparison (club racing doesn't work), the best qualified driver in each class would give you the best view of what is ABSOLUTELY capable of each motor/class (on that track on that day). The mains are never a good example of the best case scenario's.

Anybody have the qualifying and lap times from the Novak?


Thanks,
-Bob

They are on Liverc.com http://liverc.rccars.com/liverc.php
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