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Old 01-08-2008, 03:43 PM   #646
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Originally Posted by SpeedyPenguin
But that is another day, for now we all can flame away at each other as to which motor is a better 27T "equivalent"
That is just it, there is no bl motor that is comparable to a 27t brushed. The 13.5 has the edge in tc but not by alot, but when going to the lighter chassis it is like driving the next class up. The 17.5 while it proves well in the lighter chassis, doesn't have it in the heavier cars, and a well tuned 27t will have the edge. A 15.5 will give the edge to the bl motor in the lighter cars, but would probably be comparable in tc and is probably the best compromise. But then we are driving motors comp to a well tuned 27t and where do the new guys fit?
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Old 01-08-2008, 03:43 PM   #647
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make it four classes...my keyboard and flatpanel can't take much more beating trying to lead the lemmings away from the cliff.
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Old 01-08-2008, 03:44 PM   #648
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Originally Posted by Dawn Sanchez View Post
I assume every single person reading this and posting is a ROAR member, correct?
I didn't think that posting on this thread was exclusive to ROAR members. But, questions being answered seems to be relegated to such.

I like to do extensive research into an organization before joining as a member. What happens between the start of this thread and the Nats will determine if my son and I race in March at the Nats. I hope to join at that time.

Respectfully asked: What benefit does becoming a ROAR member do for ME if the 8 tracks that I race at do not require it? Does the $20 membership fee do anything for the "Club Racers" where the race directors make up their own classes and rules loosely based on ROAR?
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Old 01-08-2008, 03:48 PM   #649
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Originally Posted by trilerian View Post
That is just it, there is no bl motor that is comparable to a 27t brushed. The 13.5 has the edge in tc but not by alot, but when going to the lighter chassis it is like driving the next class up. The 17.5 while it proves well in the lighter chassis, doesn't have it in the heavier cars, and a well tuned 27t will have the edge. A 15.5 will give the edge to the bl motor in the lighter cars, but would probably be comparable in tc and is probably the best compromise. But then we are driving motors comp to a well tuned 27t and where do the new guys fit?
Just out of curiosity, where do you get all of this info?
I'm not out to offend you, just want to know.
No one in my area has used a 17.5 or 15.5
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Old 01-08-2008, 03:51 PM   #650
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When you go to a Regional or a National you should expect to run the best, Pro or not. It does not matter if it is Stock , 19 turn or Mod. These Pros started out just like you, me him or her, and have earned where they are at.
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Old 01-08-2008, 03:52 PM   #651
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Originally Posted by SpeedyPenguin View Post
Have you seen a good brushed motor on good batteries against a 13.5 with good batteries and gearing?

On both a carpet track and an asphalt track?

On carpet it might look faster easier because of the torque difference out of the corners.

In a straight up race down the straight they are very equal.

Brushed won't go away if it can give a competitive edge over 17.5 BL

Yes I've seen it the 13.5 go against 27 turn motors and it doesn't even seem close........
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Old 01-08-2008, 03:52 PM   #652
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Originally Posted by Centerline Racing View Post
I didn't think that posting on this thread was exclusive to ROAR members. But, questions being answered seems to be relegated to such.

I like to do extensive research into an organization before joining as a member. What happens between the start of this thread and the Nats will determine if my son and I race in March at the Nats. I hope to join at that time.

Respectfully asked: What benefit does becoming a ROAR member do for ME if the 8 tracks that I race at do not require it? Does the $20 membership fee do anything for the "Club Racers" where the race directors make up their own classes and rules loosely based on ROAR?
By joining ROAR you are supporting an organization that creates fair rules for competition. Every competition chassis, motor, and engine manufacturer uses ROAR rules as ther basis for their designs.

The fact that the races run smoothly and fairly is the result of ROAR rules and the willingness of manufacturers to follow them. If they didn't, TC and off-road would eng up like 1/18 and monster trucks with no established rules and cars that are different sizes and dimensions.

I am actuallt surpised that the lack of rules for so many club and major races has not results in exploitation by manufacturers. I am still waiting for the first 200mm TC at a major race that does not tech or list width rules.
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Old 01-08-2008, 04:02 PM   #653
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Rick when that 200mm TC shows up it will be packing a 3-Speed tranny
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Old 01-08-2008, 04:21 PM   #654
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size does matter fred, (co jones) youv'e seen it, AT SIR stock and 13.5 can compete. AT FW stock just isn't gonna cut it against a 13.5.
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Old 01-08-2008, 04:42 PM   #655
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Originally Posted by Davidka View Post
Just make it stock and mod. There is really no need for 19t, even thought for most types of 1/10 electric this seems to be about the best amount of power for everyone.

There are already too many classes. I looked at the Novak race results and couldn't figure it out. 3 classes of foam, 3 classes of rubber, sportsman? WTF?? I don't even think there was a C main in the Mod class! Isn't this supposed to be the premiere class? Less than 30 entries? (Maybe I'm missing something there)

Stock and Mod. Define them and roll with it. If some of us have to eat a motor or two we'll live (I can't believe anybody that has raced stock in the last couple years would complain ). If we can afford to play with toy cars at all we can afford a new motor to race a well defined class.

The real problem has always been the batteries anyway.
i agree,
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Old 01-08-2008, 04:42 PM   #656
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Originally Posted by Davidka View Post
Just make it stock and mod. There is really no need for 19t, even thought for most types of 1/10 electric this seems to be about the best amount of power for everyone.

There are already too many classes. I looked at the Novak race results and couldn't figure it out. 3 classes of foam, 3 classes of rubber, sportsman? WTF?? I don't even think there was a C main in the Mod class! Isn't this supposed to be the premiere class? Less than 30 entries? (Maybe I'm missing something there)

Stock and Mod. Define them and roll with it. If some of us have to eat a motor or two we'll live (I can't believe anybody that has raced stock in the last couple years would complain ). If we can afford to play with toy cars at all we can afford a new motor to race a well defined class.

The real problem has always been the batteries anyway.
i agree,
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Old 01-08-2008, 04:43 PM   #657
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Originally Posted by Davidka View Post
Just make it stock and mod. There is really no need for 19t, even thought for most types of 1/10 electric this seems to be about the best amount of power for everyone.

There are already too many classes. I looked at the Novak race results and couldn't figure it out. 3 classes of foam, 3 classes of rubber, sportsman? WTF?? I don't even think there was a C main in the Mod class! Isn't this supposed to be the premiere class? Less than 30 entries? (Maybe I'm missing something there)

Stock and Mod. Define them and roll with it. If some of us have to eat a motor or two we'll live (I can't believe anybody that has raced stock in the last couple years would complain ). If we can afford to play with toy cars at all we can afford a new motor to race a well defined class.

The real problem has always been the batteries anyway.
i agree,
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Old 01-08-2008, 05:00 PM   #658
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This is a double edged sword either way. If you slow the current stock class down for people and push a slower motor, say a 21.5 or something of that nature you are going to cut off alot of the mid level racers who just simply dont desire to go that slow. At our club I know we only run stock, we dont have time in the program or the numbers to spread out classes on our week night races. By making a slower motor the new "stock" class I can say our club would adopt it, because we run off essentally roar rules with slight modifications. If this were the case I for one would probally stop racing, I have no desire to go THAT slow.
When making rules you have to consider every side of the arguement, this is just another point of view. Not everyone has the numbers like at national events to split all these classes up and still have enough people in each class to keep it fun.
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Old 01-08-2008, 05:20 PM   #659
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Originally Posted by Kave View Post
This is a double edged sword either way. If you slow the current stock class down for people and push a slower motor, say a 21.5 or something of that nature you are going to cut off alot of the mid level racers who just simply dont desire to go that slow.
I appreciate your thoughts, but this is where I feel people get it wrong. To say people don't desire to go that slow is almost not accurate. What people really desire, above all else, is a VERY competitive race. What good is "Fast" if everybody around you is substantially faster or way slower?

For 90% of us, the way to get a competitive race is to make the car easier to drive.


The races that we all look back on the most favorably, the ones that really put a smile on your face,are the ones that are the closest. Finish position is seldom as important as how incredible the "jam" was for you and the other driver(s).

How can we use existing equipment, not technology down the road, to make more people more competitive? I think people confuse the word competitive with the word faster. They are not the same, not really.

I have the desire to go whatever speed gets me the best race. With the closest finish for all the drivers in it. I don't care if the end result is a 10mph straightaway speed. You would see the tightest, most intense racing ever. Cars inches apart for minutes at a time. Untill finally the guy in front of you cracks from the presure, and you slip under him for the next position.

That probably only would work on a club level where more driver error exists. I suspect it would be a crazy bash fest full of rough driving for the top 20 pro's. They can do the inches apart thing with the fastest motor combos we have. Most of the rest of us can't turn faster lap times than a 27t brushed with an open mod.
I'd like to see it though. Take some seriously aggressive driving at their level to make a good pass.
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Old 01-08-2008, 05:32 PM   #660
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The races that we all look back on the most favorably, the ones that really put a smile on your face,are the ones that are the closest. Finish position is seldom as important as how incredible the "jam" was for you and the other driver(s).

I have the desire to go whatever speed gets me the best race. With the closest finish for all the drivers in it. I don't care if the end result is a 10mph straightaway speed. You would see the tightest, most intense racing ever. Cars inches apart for minutes at a time. Untill finally the guy in front of you cracks from the presure, and you slip under him for the next position.
I remember those days, ah yes, good times.
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