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Old 01-08-2008, 03:13 PM   #631
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Originally Posted by SpeedyPenguin View Post
Local track defies ROAR(won't be the first time)
Alex, it appears you have not read or understood MY message.

ROAR rules are designed for nationals competition and to set as precedence in the overall management of the products and competition.

ROAR actually encourages the club track to "defy" the rules for the millionith time to build their programs that are successful in their area.

For nationals, all is the on equal playing field and inside a rule book to follow. There are deviations allowed as requested depending on situation... but we follow the rule book at nationals and encourage 'tweaking' at lower levels.
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Old 01-08-2008, 03:22 PM   #632
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Some interesting reading on: Trackside summary....Jim Dieter thread.

Now that one major BL race is in the books, the cost of running BL ain't all it's cranked up to be.

Read posts 22 and 23.
Seems for a big race replacing rotors every run or two ups the power game, and melt downs are still an issue. Then there is the speedo programing games being played out too.

BL technology still has a ways to go yet and carving rules in stone is not going to help. They need to be phased in over a period of time and blended into existing classes to keep racing alive.
Those that think the factory guys have an advantage now with brushed systems ,you ain't seen nothing yet.
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Old 01-08-2008, 03:23 PM   #633
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Originally Posted by Dawn Sanchez View Post
Alex, it appears you have not read or understood MY message.

ROAR rules are designed for nationals competition and to set as precedence in the overall management of the products and competition.

ROAR actually encourages the club track to "defy" the rules for the millionith time to build their programs that are successful in their area.

For nationals, all is the on equal playing field and inside a rule book to follow. There are deviations allowed as requested depending on situation... but we follow the rule book at nationals and encourage 'tweaking' at lower levels.
I thought the whole argument for the 17.5 vs 13.5 was "for the novice".
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Old 01-08-2008, 03:25 PM   #634
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It depends on what level you want to play at. Rules will aways change with time but there needs to be some kind of standard to play by. If things don't work or need to be "adjusted" for next year that is why the rules are looked at every year!
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Old 01-08-2008, 03:25 PM   #635
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I thought the whole argument for the 17.5 vs 13.5 was "for the novice".
Nope, it's to decide which BL motor to allow for the current stock class.
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Old 01-08-2008, 03:26 PM   #636
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I think the point is to slow down stock to get the pros out of it.
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Old 01-08-2008, 03:27 PM   #637
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawn Sanchez View Post
ROAR rules are designed for nationals competition and to set as precedence in the overall management of the products and competition.

ROAR actually encourages the club track to "defy" the rules for the millionith time to build their programs that are successful in their area.

For nationals, all is the on equal playing field and inside a rule book to follow. There are deviations allowed as requested depending on situation... but we follow the rule book at nationals and encourage 'tweaking' at lower levels.
Well, based on that. How many people have attended a ROAR nationals in the last year. Total of different individuals?

Those people should have a say, and the rest of us should shut up already. We didn't even go to the event and yet here a lot of us are, telling them the correct way to set up an event we didn't attend....

<---Did not attend a ROAR nationals last year.

I realize it "trickles down", but if we are encouraged to run what works for the clubs, then really, the debate is pretty much over.

I feel though, that well written national rules can help clubs in different ways. Sure, you're not running this particular class locally, but they've had excellent results with it everywhere else, it seems it's worth looking in to.

Did you attend a ROAR nationals last year? Dawn what is the actual number? I'm gonna guess unique entrys at say 600 for electric racing. I'd like to hope I'm way low.
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Old 01-08-2008, 03:28 PM   #638
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Johnny do our cars really need the extra capacity? Right now I can run a 100lap Oval shoot out race and still have 2000mah left in my 4200's. When our club does 1hour enduros, I normally can run 12 mins before my pace drops two tenths. Dumping should be part of racing, it would be the same as running out of fuel in NASCAR.

Also Johnny have you been to the LHS or Towerhobbies LiPO sections? Just look at all the various styles, sizes, capacities, casings, balance taps that are found there. If some rules do not laid down soon our R/C racing will become the wild wild east(China) of LiPO's and this will be very hard on the car manufactures and the racers to keep up with the constant changes.

By enforcing a cell size form factor this limits the chaos. Right now the rules are 22mm x 44mm AKA Sub-C. Unfortunately this size form factor is not available for Lithium batteries unless custom ordered which means more cost to racers.

For the switch to Lithium batteries I urge the use of common sense and use a form factor that is already used. Buy using batteries that other industries besides RC are developing and mass producing it will insure a more stable supply, more reliable cell, and cheaper battery for our HOBBY.

For 1:10 scales that would be 26mm x 65mm or the 26650 cells. For 1:12 the solution is not clear. There are CR123 (18 x 32mm) , 18650 (18 x65mm) and the 26650 cells that all can fit into the car. For continuity with 1:10 classes i would prefer just using two 26650 cells, but using four 18650 cells would work just as well. The CR123 cells may provide a more modular cell configuration but will require more expensive chargers and battery packs since the cell count would have to be 6 or 8 total cells. 1:18 scale cars could also use the 18650 cells, since they are about the same diameter as 2/3A batteries.
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Old 01-08-2008, 03:33 PM   #639
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Originally Posted by C_O_jones View Post
Nope, it's to decide which BL motor to allow for the current stock class.
The argument for the 17.5 against the 13.5 as the motor to replace stock is that the 17.5 is better because stock needs to be more "entry level" aka "for the novice"

Quote:
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I think the point is to slow down stock to get the pros out of it.
Then run Mabuchi motors

but honestly that is a whole different problem, but really I think that "stock" just should not be run on a national level.

But that is another day, for now we all can flame away at each other as to which motor is a better 27T "equivalent"
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Old 01-08-2008, 03:35 PM   #640
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I think the point is to slow down stock to get the pros out of it.
What is your exact definition of a "pro".

Something like a check list that, when all filled out says, "yes, this guys is a pro", Nope this other guy is not.

What about guys that just happen to be very good drivers, yet pay for their stuff. Pro? not a pro?

Of the major events going on, Cleveland is still the most recent that ran 27t brushed stock. The Novak was brushless, and the Birds hasn't happened.

Is it possible we are trying to move say 5-10 guys out of stock on a national level? That's it?
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Old 01-08-2008, 03:37 PM   #641
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Originally Posted by Bob-Stormer View Post
Well, based on that. How many people have attended a ROAR nationals in the last year. Total of different individuals?

Those people should have a say, and the rest of us should shut up already. We didn't even go to the event and yet here a lot of us are, telling them the correct way to set up an event we didn't attend....

<---Did not attend a ROAR nationals last year.

I realize it "trickles down", but if we are encouraged to run what works for the clubs, then really, the debate is pretty much over.

I feel though, that well written national rules can help clubs in different ways. Sure, you're not running this particular class locally, but they've had excellent results with it everywhere else, it seems it's worth looking in to.

Did you attend a ROAR nationals last year? Dawn what is the actual number? I'm gonna guess unique entrys at say 600 for electric racing. I'd like to hope I'm way low.
I did attend the ROAR onroad nats last year! Even made the A, much to my surprise. Masters.

But keep posting Bob, I save yours for late at night when I have trouble getting to sleep.

Your posts are always informative and yet funny at the same time. So don't give it up.

Fred
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Old 01-08-2008, 03:38 PM   #642
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Originally Posted by panther420 View Post
Why not just have 4 classes?

17.5-21.5 - novice
13.5 - intermediate
10.5 - expert
mod - pro

This seems like the best way to make everybody happy (or at least close to it).
I like this
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Old 01-08-2008, 03:41 PM   #643
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I recommend that people also read this thread as it develops, as we must realize that these changes will affect ALL of our sport. Does only the onroad community get a say in the future of rc racing?

http://www.rctech.net/forum/showthread.php?t=199622
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Old 01-08-2008, 03:41 PM   #644
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Originally Posted by SpeedyPenguin View Post
Then run Mabuchi motors
You have no idea how close you are to the solution. Grab a 1/12th 4-cell car, roll it out about 60mm with a silver can in it, and enjoy. You'll only be about 2 laps off the pace of a stock motor with a motor that has half the watts.

If any racer here club races 1/12th stock, and finds himself 2-3 laps up on his buddies, you can still be competitive and win with a silver can. Why is that? Anybody care to comment?
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Old 01-08-2008, 03:42 PM   #645
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Originally Posted by SpeedyPenguin View Post
The argument for the 17.5 against the 13.5 as the motor to replace stock is that the 17.5 is better because stock needs to be more "entry level" aka "for the novice"



Then run Mabuchi motors

but honestly that is a whole different problem, but really I think that "stock" just should not be run on a national level.

But that is another day, for now we all can flame away at each other as to which motor is a better 27T "equivalent"
If you would take the time to read the ROAR rule book, you would discover that "stock" is a class.
And it is a needed class at the national level.
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