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Old 01-07-2008, 06:24 PM   #511
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Originally Posted by PitNamedGordie View Post
Well there you have it. Now we will see how long it will take for companies to catch up. Novak, start mass producing!

My track, I'm guessing, will follow suit. The tracks owner's son ran at the Novak race in the Sportsman class. So I know he's open to the 17.5.



My understanding from communication with pretty much everybody the last few weeks is this isn't a big deal.. mass production is already in the plans - just waiting to find out which one to mass produce.
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Old 01-07-2008, 06:24 PM   #512
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Originally Posted by Verndog View Post
17.5 I have no interest in, and 10.5 is going to prob. be too fast for me...no choice...I will eventually move "up" to 10.5....
Odd statement, considering that 10.5 rubber tire and 13.5 rubber at the Novak race this weekend were virtually IDENTICAL A-main and lap times. How is the 10.5 "too fast" for you if you already race with a 13.5?

IMO, the 17.5 is the proper speed motor for "stock" class racing. Now if the car manufacturers would step up with some friendlier internal gear ratios so that we didn't have to run a mini spur and a mini spur bolted to the motor for gears.



Now, where'd my 60T pinion go?
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Old 01-07-2008, 06:31 PM   #513
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Dawn,

Is this experience being seen in offroad? Just from what I saw from the results this past weekend from the Novak results, the 13.5 were about a lap or so off the mod, which doesn't seem like too big of a jump to me, but I suppose that's my opinion. On the other hand, the 10.5 class TQ would have qualified for the mod A (I think). If the 10.5 is almost as fast as mod, this makes for a very small jump, but could it be too big of a jump for the 17.5 guys to jump to basically mod speeds?

Brian
If you DRIVE a 10.5 and a 4.5 on 6 cells or a 3.5 on 5 cells you will FEEL the power diffrence is HUGE even though the lap times are very close.

This is the problem....lots of opinions from guys that never have driven 10.5 AND Open Mod.
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Old 01-07-2008, 06:37 PM   #514
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Originally Posted by Dawn Sanchez View Post

What I need to know is what is the typical gearing and timing settings for on road paved and carpet set ups? With these BL's, they'll take anything.... but I heard of a lot of 'burning down the house' stuff at the race this past weekend with such high gearing.....

please, EXPERTS out there.. help?? Should ROAR look at gearing and timing ratios in the guidelines/rules?
You are just going to have to leave this open to the racers. Racers will always push the limits...you will never stop them.

Teching Timing will be almost impossible. The next generations speed controls will control timing electronically in the speedo not mechanically at the motor.

Gearing is gearing...you can't limit that as cars have different internal transmission ratios and tracks require different ratios.
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Old 01-07-2008, 06:41 PM   #515
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If you DRIVE a 10.5 and a 4.5 on 6 cells or a 3.5 on 5 cells you will FEEL the power diffrence is HUGE even though the lap times are very close.

This is the problem....lots of opinions from guys that never have driven 10.5 AND Open Mod.
Could it be the difference in size of tracks we all race on Adrian? I understand you run on big, outdoor tracks, I run on smaller, indoor tracks. Also, you say the FEEL is much different from 10.5 to mod, is the FEEL from 17.5 to 10.5 be a bigger hurdle for the person honing his or her skills, wanting to move up? But for the record, I have driven open mod before, the feel of a 13.5 and mod motor is completely different, I'll give you that.
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Old 01-07-2008, 06:42 PM   #516
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I'm sure Adrian is beating his head against the wall somewhere becaus he already said this.

Just because the lap times were the same doesn't mean there isn't a huge difference in driving. A 13.5 has a heck of alot more rip when you get on the throtle compared to a 17.5.

As for buying a brushless system just to have it out dated by rules does suck... Although we all jumped into the brushless game wayyyyy before ROAR even thought about changing the rules for it. I'm not happy that I will have to replace my 13.5 with a 17.5, but its the way it has to be. 13.5 is way to much for a "stock class"
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Old 01-07-2008, 06:55 PM   #517
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Odd statement, considering that 10.5 rubber tire and 13.5 rubber at the Novak race this weekend were virtually IDENTICAL A-main and lap times. How is the 10.5 "too fast" for you if you already race with a 13.5?

IMO, the 17.5 is the proper speed motor for "stock" class racing. Now if the car manufacturers would step up with some friendlier internal gear ratios so that we didn't have to run a mini spur and a mini spur bolted to the motor for gears.

Now, where'd my 60T pinion go?
17.5 may be a better "stock" motor I don't know since I haven't run 1, and it may even be the right choice if attendance was higher when things were "slower". As far as times the same, they are close to the same for 10.5 and mod but does that mean they are equally the same to drive?? Speed and difference will be dependant on track size and layout also, it's pretty much a given at SIR there is close to .5+ second difference from 13.5 rubber to 10.5 rubber.
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Last edited by Verndog; 01-07-2008 at 07:20 PM.
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Old 01-07-2008, 07:01 PM   #518
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While everyone may think that 17.5 is "Better" in the long run for the class, there is but one thing to consider: brushed motors

If 17.5 BL is made legal for stock racing, then what is to prevent me from showing up at the nationals with a tuned and tweaked brushed motor to blow past all the 17.5 motors.


For offroad a 17.5 might not be enough motor to clear vital jumps and people would be FORCED to run brushed to keep a competitive pace.

Just something to consider
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Old 01-07-2008, 07:06 PM   #519
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Originally Posted by SpeedyPenguin View Post
While everyone may think that 17.5 is "Better" in the long run for the class, there is but one thing to consider: brushed motors

If 17.5 BL is made legal for stock racing, then what is to prevent me from showing up at the nationals with a tuned and tweaked brushed motor to blow past all the 17.5 motors.


For offroad a 17.5 might not be enough motor to clear vital jumps and people would be FORCED to run brushed to keep a competitive pace.

Just something to consider
nothing will stop you from doing this, Alex.... nothing at all....

17.5 is the safest and most conservative motor for a stock equivalence and at your home track the norm is 13.5 for club racing and will be for the Cactus.... despite my wishes, my better half wants that...

ROAR rules are made for consistency in racing at the nationals level to set a precedence and club racing is encouraged to do their own local tweaking....

and, I'll remember that when I tech your stuff at the Cactus... LOL
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Old 01-07-2008, 07:07 PM   #520
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Originally Posted by AdrianM View Post
If you DRIVE a 10.5 and a 4.5 on 6 cells or a 3.5 on 5 cells you will FEEL the power diffrence is HUGE even though the lap times are very close.

This is the problem....lots of opinions from guys that never have driven 10.5 AND Open Mod.

Some of us haven't had the honor of mastering every type of motor like you have
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Old 01-07-2008, 07:08 PM   #521
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Originally Posted by SpeedyPenguin View Post
While everyone may think that 17.5 is "Better" in the long run for the class, there is but one thing to consider: brushed motors

If 17.5 BL is made legal for stock racing, then what is to prevent me from showing up at the nationals with a tuned and tweaked brushed motor to blow past all the 17.5 motors.


For offroad a 17.5 might not be enough motor to clear vital jumps and people would be FORCED to run brushed to keep a competitive pace.

Just something to consider
Well you can do that all you want i'm sure... Just don't get mad when I tweak my 17.5 and blow by your stock motor
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Old 01-07-2008, 07:11 PM   #522
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Well you can do that all you want i'm sure... Just don't get mad when I tweak my 17.5 and blow by your stock motor

you mean gear your car accordingly.... not tweak the motor, right??
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Old 01-07-2008, 07:14 PM   #523
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you mean gear your car accordingly.... not tweak the motor, right??
maybe he meant tweak his speed control
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Old 01-07-2008, 07:19 PM   #524
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Gearing.. this is wear the hobby shop keeps some of that brushless motor money lol. Actually its an interesting issue seeing how one manufacturer has a shutdown occur at one temperature, and others use another temp. Then you have the yahoos who want to take the motor to 200 and beyond by cutting the temp wire. (which i think i've taken a stock br motor to on a tight track, i felt bad for the poor lil bugga) There might be something to an industry standard temp limit setting if there isn't a standard yet. The only problem I see, besides taking away another selling point, is updating and teching previously bought equipment. Thats really one for the MFGs to figure out how to settle on and manage older BL equip. I read that novak has a motor exchange/upgrade program so maybe something along those lines can be done across the industry with speedos too?? (Steve, as i understand it you guys pretty much wrote the original BL rules for mod, is there a way to electronically check that the temp wire is fully functional at a tech table, say with a meter?)

i have a feeling most people on the receiving money side of the deal would rather a few burn up.

Something to discuss anyways.
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Old 01-07-2008, 07:19 PM   #525
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Originally Posted by SpeedyPenguin View Post
While everyone may think that 17.5 is "Better" in the long run for the class, there is but one thing to consider: brushed motors

If 17.5 BL is made legal for stock racing, then what is to prevent me from showing up at the nationals with a tuned and tweaked brushed motor to blow past all the 17.5 motors.


For offroad a 17.5 might not be enough motor to clear vital jumps and people would be FORCED to run brushed to keep a competitive pace.

Just something to consider
A 17.5 is faster than any 27T in a 2wd Buggy or Truck. It has so much more bottom end that you can screw up preparing for any jump and still have enough grunt to launch over it. This is the case even with the insane gear ratio needed to match the top speed of a 27T.
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