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Old 01-03-2008, 05:09 PM   #256
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Originally Posted by frozenpod View Post
Who says we have to use Lipo.

Most racers in Australia still use Nimh.

I have used Lipo in my air RC activities and although it is suitable to air when things go wrong with Lipo it is very serious ie fires that cannot be put out, buildings burnt down.

In RC car application getting peak performance is always the key and this will lead to a much higher rate of failures. Particularly when warming batts, charging at high rates ect.

IMO I would ban all Lipos in RC car events as it is just a matter of time before there are some very serious failures.

oh can't wait for the responses to this
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Old 01-03-2008, 05:15 PM   #257
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Dawn.. Bottom line is You and Your commitee have to make the decision for US..Not US for you.. Thats why your the Pres...Happy Rules Printing...
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Old 01-03-2008, 05:15 PM   #258
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It's easy, ignore the troll. It obviously didn't read the thread.
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Old 01-03-2008, 05:35 PM   #259
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Originally Posted by NovakTwo View Post
The existing (one and only) ROAR brushless motor rule has been available for all to study for several years now. And yet, only two companies have submitted BL motors for ROAR approval. Why is this?

I'm sure many companies will show up at Snowbirds with their shiny new BL motors that they will expect to race. Motors, which they will claim are "Built to ROAR specs"---motors that have never been submitted for approval and which customers can not readily purchase. Why is this?

We, here, are debating new ROAR brushless motor rules but no one but Novak and LRP have even bothered to conform to the rules we have now. Why are these other companies unwilling to submit their motors for approval?

Yea.. but lets not do that here, Mrs. Novak, ok?



I am so appreciative of this thread and the others ...

thank you EVERYBODY for giving us the information we need an the opportunity to listen to you.

I guess I had assumed we all were willing to work with eachother as adults... and yep, I was right.
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Old 01-03-2008, 05:43 PM   #260
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ok....

isn't 13.5 actually the 19T equivalent... if you can use that word...

2 days of this and now we all should understand there is no equivalency in BL and BR motors...
Well, here's some more anecdotal info to make everything a little bit cloudier:

13.5's may be too much of a handful for sedans on small tracks(), but they are perfect for stock truck because they make clearing those double doubles at the end of the race a little bit easier, which can be the difference between a good night and a broken part so it's a great club level motor for beginners. 17.5's would make stock truck even more of a snoozefest than brushed stock makes it right now.

I'd say 10.5's and 19T's are more comparable, but that's just my opinion. Maybe if we got rid of stock, juniors and masters at the big races, there would be enough demand to support 19T and 10.5 classes. (This doesn't really matter in offroad because brushed motors will go extinct sooner than later.) 10.5 and MOD at the nats would be sweet.
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Old 01-03-2008, 05:56 PM   #261
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Don't kill the 19T class.. 10.5 and brushed 19T motors are so close. That class is for experts anyway so if your gonna win your gonna have to win it with a perfect run.

For the stock class if 13.5 is to fast and 17.5 is to slow then what about the 15.5 like someone mentioned earlier.
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Old 01-03-2008, 05:59 PM   #262
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I think the idea behind the specifications is to make it so that most everyone's different tear down brushless motor will meet the specifications as is with some minor alterations to rotors, etc.

The idea is not to force everyone to completely re-tool up a new motor... but to try to seguay what everyone has into something we can all agree on and attain easily.

Once all of that type of stuff is out of the way it's simply a matter of winding 17.5 turns on your stator instead of 3.5 or 13.5 or whatever
Steve, this is what I was getting at with the motor explanation. THANK YOU.
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Old 01-03-2008, 06:00 PM   #263
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Originally Posted by Leodis View Post
Well, here's some more anecdotal info to make everything a little bit cloudier:

13.5's may be too much of a handful for sedans on small tracks(), but they are perfect for stock truck because they make clearing those double doubles at the end of the race a little bit easier, which can be the difference between a good night and a broken part so it's a great club level motor for beginners. 17.5's would make stock truck even more of a snoozefest than brushed stock makes it right now.

I'd say 10.5's and 19T's are more comparable, but that's just my opinion. Maybe if we got rid of stock, juniors and masters at the big races, there would be enough demand to support 19T and 10.5 classes. (This doesn't really matter in offroad because brushed motors will go extinct sooner than later.) 10.5 and MOD at the nats would be sweet.
In most areas stock is still the biggest class even though you obviously don't like it. Problem is we need to make the transition to Brushless and the 13.5 is closer to 19t than stock which many feel is too fast for the less experienced. If you think stock or 17.5 is too slow, don't race it, there are other classes for you. I don't run stock at my club and probably won't, but I see the need for a good stock class and the 17.5 seems like a good compromise.
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Old 01-03-2008, 06:12 PM   #264
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ok....

isn't 13.5 actually the 19T equivalent... if you can use that word...

2 days of this and now we all should understand there is no equivalency in BL and BR motors...
Not sure if you're just messing with us or if you're serious here... I think about the only thing most agree on in this thread is that a good 19T and a 10.5 are about as close to equal as a brushed and BL motors get.

Also, I have seen very few people come on here and say "what about my CO27 or Monster stock". Brushed motors are all but dead already without much influence from ROAR, why go out of your way to try to level the playing field for a motor that is already barely surviving. I don't really see anyone on here campaigning to save the brushed motor. In fact, this is a motor thread, yet more people are expressing concern for the C cell going away than the brushed motor.

On the subject of slowing things down, it's is great and all for beginners. However, beginner classes are tough to sustain, you need a constant influx of new racers because as soon as someone wins a couple times they're ready to move on to regular stock class racing. In fact, sportsman class at Trackside has been pretty weak class with spotty turnout, at least when I've raced there. I'd venture a guess that very few tracks and hobby shops are able to run a beginner or sportsman class on a regular basis. Do you think having them use different equipment (17.5) than what is the standard for stock racing around the country will help bring people in? I don't... It should be up to tracks to help the newer drivers go slow at first. Slowing everyone down by using 17.5 as the stock equal just doesn't seem like an option because of how established 13.5 already is for stock class racing.

ROAR should be helping to bring the hobby together, and I fear choosing anything but 13.5 for stock class racing will just further divide ROAR from the local tracks.

Also, Dawn, you yourself said earlier that you didn't like the idea of 17.5 for stock racing because it's only one manufacturer. After that you said you were leaning towards not changing stock and leaving it at 27T. But now you're saying... "I think IF stock remains in nationals - it should be 17.5 only." The indecisiveness with you, and all of us for that matter, should tell you that this isn't a decision that should be made in a couple weeks time just after you and many others have jumped into a new position.

Seems to me the best thing ROAR can do now is gather as much information as they can over the next couple months and hold off on making any big decisions until after NATs.

Sorry to continue to be such a pain in the ass, but at least I've let the 1/12th scale stuff go... For now...

Still Charming,
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Old 01-03-2008, 06:20 PM   #265
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Right now, Novak is the only company offering a 17.5 turn motor. However, there is no reason why all the companies offering sensored motors couldn't offer 17.5 wind motors.

The "only one manufacturer" shouldn't be a problem.
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Old 01-03-2008, 06:27 PM   #266
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Originally Posted by NovakTwo View Post
Right now, Novak is the only company offering a 17.5 turn motor. However, there is no reason why all the companies offering sensored motors couldn't offer 17.5 wind motors.

The "only one manufacturer" shouldn't be a problem.
I know SpeedPassion can have 17.5's in a few weeks if thats the way the rules go. That means Trinity, GM and Orion will have them at the same time too
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Old 01-03-2008, 06:29 PM   #267
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17.5bl
10.5 / 19t
open mod BR or BL

If you don't want to run slower for stock, then you should probably already be running a 10.5 or 19T. Slow the stock cars down as has been said numerous times already.

Again, Dawn has also stated numerous times that they're encouraging clubs to tweak the rules as needed. If you guys with the 13.5's are so numberous at your local clubs, why wouldn't you simply create a class for it? I'm sure the host club would have no problem taking your entry fees. The other benefit that I see to slowing down the stock class especially at national events is it would finally force some of these well known big name stock drivers out of it. This is long overdue.

ROAR can simply be used as "guideline" on the local scene.....we're doing it here on the state level races. This year looks to be the most exciting yet!
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Old 01-03-2008, 06:29 PM   #268
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Originally Posted by NovakTwo View Post
Right now, Novak is the only company offering a 17.5 turn motor. However, there is no reason why all the companies offering sensored motors couldn't offer 17.5 wind motors.

The "only one manufacturer" shouldn't be a problem.
Trinity certainly had little problem with it

I have no issue with Novak being the only manufacturer (especially since it would be temporary), it's just something that Dawn pointed out earlier. I guess what I like least about it is that most of the country is already using the 13.5 in stock class racing. Maybe most of the country is wrong, but most of the country is wrong about a lot of things and the rest of us just have to put up with it. Why should RC racing be any different!

P.S. Don't forget that 17.5 presents some bigtime gearing issues for oval and 1/12th scale cars. I still haven't seen anyone solidly refute that...
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Old 01-03-2008, 06:40 PM   #269
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Actually the 17.5 works really well in the 1/12th cars. You just have to get a small spur and BIG pinion...lol. They are running very similar lap times to 27t brushed.
I actually think that the 13.5 in 1/12th probably would be real close to 19 turn. Seems from what has happened around here locally that the type of car makes a bigger difference with the brushless on the speeds.
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Old 01-03-2008, 06:42 PM   #270
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I know SpeedPassion can have 17.5's in a few weeks if thats the way the rules go. That means Trinity, GM and Orion will have them at the same time too
As soon as Feigao hits that "Start" button, the world will be awash in 17.5 motors...
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