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Old 01-03-2008, 09:35 AM   #166
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Originally Posted by C_O_jones View Post
Time to throw so more fuel on the fire:
The big push for BL seems to me at least, the cost + frustration factor of running BL being much easier and that is being used to bring new blood to rc racing.
OK, I will go along with that.
Now for the racing part, I watch whats going on at the local tracks and more and more it is turning into, hey, ya gotta try this motor(BL) for this layout, and this new speedo really rips, but keep that other motor and speedo cause for certain layouts it works better, or for this track that other combo works better, but if your gunna do offroad to, you should use this speedo/bl combo.
That will really keep he cost of racing down!
So you'll tune a motor but you won't tune your speed control? ESCs are adjustable ya know...
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Old 01-03-2008, 09:38 AM   #167
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Come on Fred join the in crowd. Everybodies doing it. Look at the shiny new Bl motor, you know you want one!
If I ran mod, but I'm way to old for that.
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Old 01-03-2008, 09:41 AM   #168
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Your about to see a ton of 13.5s in the for sale forum. Let the countdown begin.
Man eBay will be loaded with them. I hope I can sell mine for atleast $40

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Originally Posted by ApexSpeed View Post
But what about the millions of brushed motors and ESCs that have been sold over the last 30 years? They are all becoming paperweights, too.

Nothing is immune to obsoletism.
Ahh so true.
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Old 01-03-2008, 09:41 AM   #169
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I'm an active ROAR member and raced 27t stock offroad for 4 years at the regional level before switching to 13.5 brushless. I agree that a 13.5 is faster than a 27t stock motor and that a 17.5 would be much closer to stock speeds and better for novices.

However, with so many people already running 13.5's and the deadline getting close to update the rules for 2008, you would probably upset fewer people by going forward with what everyone has grown to accept.

Stock: 13.5/27t
Spec: 10.5/19t
Mod: Open

They're already complaining in the offroad forum about 17.5 in stock and it has only been discussed for one day.
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Old 01-03-2008, 09:42 AM   #170
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So you'll tune a motor but you won't tune your speed control? ESCs are adjustable ya know...
Oh man, ya mean I have ta do that too?


Thats why I use a GTX, real easy to set
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Old 01-03-2008, 09:46 AM   #171
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If I ran mod, but I'm way to old for that.
You would be able to clear the quad though
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Old 01-03-2008, 09:47 AM   #172
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Default trying different bl motors

Trying different bl motors within the same category (13.5) is the same as trying different stock motors (monster stock vs co27 vs xstock and different springs and brushes in each) to get the combination of rpm and torque that one is after. Granted this is a waste of money but some racers will do whatever they can for an edge. That said, the beauty of brushless is that you can do a lot of feel changes through the esc and radio settings. It is much easier to turn power down, than it is to create it. One thing that I have noticed is that fast drivers not only know setup of the cars, but they also know setup of the electronics.

Once bl becomes fully mainstream, you will have the cost is no object racers buying a new brushless motor every couple of weeks, because they are convinced that new motors are faster. You cannot stop this, and this has always been a part of the hobby.

One more thing. New cars, tires, etc make driving faster much easier. If you go back to a tc3 and strap in a 13.5 brushless with old tech tires, you will have a much harder time getting fast laps than with a xray 008, tc5, etc with new formula tires.
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Old 01-03-2008, 09:50 AM   #173
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Originally Posted by Paul_67 View Post
I'm an active ROAR member and raced 27t stock offroad for 4 years at the regional level before switching to 13.5 brushless. I agree that a 13.5 is faster than a 27t stock motor and that a 17.5 would be much closer to stock speeds and better for novices.

However, with so many people already running 13.5's and the deadline getting close to update the rules for 2008, you would probably upset fewer people by going forward with what everyone has grown to accept.

Stock: 13.5/27t
Spec: 10.5/19t
Mod: Open

They're already complaining in the offroad forum about 17.5 in stock and it has only been discussed for one day.
I agree. It'll be very interesting to see what they do.
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Old 01-03-2008, 09:55 AM   #174
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The whole idea is to make it where Joe Somebody and his son can feel like they have a class to race at a big event and want to show up and have fun. Right now you can't do that. Stock is so far from a beginner class it isn't even funny. That is what needs to be fixed. Any ideas?
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Old 01-03-2008, 10:04 AM   #175
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One thing that I have noticed is that fast drivers not only know setup of the cars, but they also know setup of the electronics.
So true. I use the stock profile for my ESC. I am just now getting into what changes can/need to made to help my driving.
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Old 01-03-2008, 10:06 AM   #176
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Well, this debate can go on and on.....Everyone has their opionios.....Experience with the 13.5 BL at Chilli has been no difference in top speed....Tons more torque on the get go though with the 13.5.....If ROAR kicks out the 13.5 for a stock class, I think that is a bad move....It will more likely stop many from renewing or joining......And assigning a level of experience with a particular motor size is a little out there......That's just like telling someone if they're over a certain age, Master's class for instance, that you have to race in that class.....Everyone thinks that just because you run in the mod class, you are an expert......I can see maybe having an expert class in stock, 19t, & mod, but you will still have those who sign-up for a particular class that still doesn't belong......Racing is supposed to be fun.....Looks like its going the other direction with some of these new and different classes that were not talked about 6 months ago......13.5 still equals stock in my book.....That's what we will be running at our track at least thru 2008.....I've already stated it that way in the rules for '08......If they want to make a seperate stock 13.5 b/l class, that's would be killing the brushed class.....But the brushed motors will be gone shortly anyways.....Let er rip guys....This is my opion, which I very seldon do on here or on the net, so I'll keep reading, and that will probably be it.....lol.....Racers & track owners should have some say in implementing rules, as they are going to be racing and what not on a weekly basis......
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Old 01-03-2008, 10:14 AM   #177
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Stock Sportsman / 17.5 = A place for the new guy's to start and feel comfortable

Stock Expert / 13.5 & 27T = This way you have an option. These are close enough for the expert racers and it won't put all the motor builders out of business.

Spec. / 10.5 & 19T = This class needs to stay around for the guy's that want to move up but aren't ready for mod.

Mod / open = Speaks for itself

I like the idea about no more handouts. They tell us what motors are allowed and we buy them at our LHS and then have them teched and marked when you sign in for the race. Hobby shops get more sales and the entree fee won't have to be so high.
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Old 01-03-2008, 10:15 AM   #178
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No, breaking parts, DNF'ing and missing rounds trying to fix your car after you spent close to a grand to get started is why novices leave. They'd much rather hit shift-r or the reset button on the computer game than spend all that time not racing.

If slowing him down helps prevent that then I think it works. Right now at my track more guys, from novices to seasoned racers who will never compete for even a B main nationally, are looking to go slower than 13.5 because it brings tighter, more enjoyable racing, and less wear and tear on the cars. Whether thats something we want to take across the nation and to national events may and should be questioned, though.
At my home track, we run a Sportsman and Expert Stock. What I am getting at here is that my son who just turned 8 does not have NEARLY the fastest car on the track. He turns down his transmitter himself because he see's the other Sportsman drivers going too fast and not finishing the race. I am bringing this up because he can hang with the rest of the Sportsman class without a problem with a slower car. It is his choice to make the car slower and run more consistent laps rather that be the fastest car on the track for the first 8 laps then have to spend the next 20 minutes wrenching because he hit a wall. Trying to find a happy medium is going to be nearly impossible as there will always be someone complaining. I give ROAR and Dawn a lot of credit for taking this on and trying to find ways to keep everyone happy with the Hobby. I do have sponsors, I still pay for my stuff, I make a very good living, and I am finding it difficult to continue to race as cost is definitely becoming an issue with motor and battery maintenance. Any legal brushless equivalents would make me happy as I currently use brushless for chassis tuning and mod touring, and brushed for racing. I have already noticed a savings from a brush/maintenance perspective even though I made the initial investment in the brushless motors. Finally, many of the Sportsman drivers I mentioned have actually slowed themselves down to try to be more consistent and they all improved their lap times and totals.
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Old 01-03-2008, 10:15 AM   #179
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Most of the US races outdoors on asphalt. I run 19T or open mod mostly. 13.5 in a sedan is not exciting to me and is certianly not as fast as a 19T at my local 170x50 track . 10.5 is perfect pace wise with a 19T.

13.5 is too fast compared to stock an not as fast as 19T so the classes should be:

17.5/27T

10.5/19T

Open Mod

13.5 gets raced at club races as long as there is interest in it then it goes away just like 23T did on the late 80's.
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Old 01-03-2008, 10:23 AM   #180
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I JUST WANT TO RACE!
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