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Old 01-03-2008, 09:21 AM   #151
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Originally Posted by billjacobs View Post
...Pretending that novices leave because the cars are too fast is also not the answer, because almost all novices want speed. You also have to seperate the novices into kids and adults. Telling an adult that their car is too fast for them is a sure way to get them to leave. Turning down a kids throttle throw to make them slower is easy and effective...
No, breaking parts, DNF'ing and missing rounds trying to fix your car after you spent close to a grand to get started is why novices leave. They'd much rather hit shift-r or the reset button on the computer game than spend all that time not racing.

If slowing him down helps prevent that then I think it works. Right now at my track more guys, from novices to seasoned racers who will never compete for even a B main nationally, are looking to go slower than 13.5 because it brings tighter, more enjoyable racing, and less wear and tear on the cars. Whether thats something we want to take across the nation and to national events may and should be questioned, though.
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Old 01-03-2008, 09:24 AM   #152
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Originally Posted by Rick Hohwart View Post
This is good but I would like to see the classes called:

Sportsman (using 17.5 or 27T)
Amateur or Intermediate (using 10.5 or 19T)
Expert (mod brushless/brushed)
Pro (factory drivers mode brushless/brushed)
But what about the thousands of 13.5s that have been sold and are still sitting in hobby shops?
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Old 01-03-2008, 09:24 AM   #153
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Originally Posted by C_O_jones View Post
Time to throw so more fuel on the fire:

The big push for BL seems to me at least, the cost + frustration factor of running BL being much easier and that is being used to bring new blood to rc racing.
OK, I will go along with that.

Now for the racing part, I watch whats going on at the local tracks and more and more it is turning into, hey, ya gotta try this motor(BL) for this layout, and this new speedo really rips, but keep that other motor and speedo cause for certain layouts it works better, or for this track that other combo works better, but if your gunna do offroad to, you should use this speedo/bl combo.

That will really keep he cost of racing down!

There needs to be a reasonable cost racing class open to the non-pro's and that is stock as it is now, 27t. You can't just kill off the most popular class and if there is no matching BL system now, wait a year or two, the demand is there for BL companies to find a comparable motor.
that's b/c we all want to believe the hype. B/c if we are using the "wrong" equipment it helps us believe its not the controller interface (us) that is the reason we lost.
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Old 01-03-2008, 09:25 AM   #154
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Rick, do you mean "either or" on the "Amateur or Intermediate (using 10.5 or 27T)", or run 27T with 10.5??

I actually mistyped and meant that the class be called amateur or intermediate using a choice of a 10.5 or 19T brushed. However after some thought I think that it would be better to do away with the 10.5 class. with 17.5, 13.5, and modified, there is a more reasonable separation in speed between the classes.

I prefer to give the classes a name so that there is some motivation to move up. And less motivation for sponsors to encourage drivers to race in lower level classes.
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Old 01-03-2008, 09:25 AM   #155
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But what about the thousands of 13.5s that have been sold and are still sitting in hobby shops?
Someone is going to lose out in this. We all were early adopters and should have known the risk. Im sure there will still be 13.5 local racing.
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Old 01-03-2008, 09:27 AM   #156
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But what about the thousands of 13.5s that have been sold and are still sitting in hobby shops?
The same thing that happend to the thousands of 36 and 44 degree stock motors when 24 degree becasme the max - they are instantly obsolete.
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Old 01-03-2008, 09:28 AM   #157
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I'm either gonna trash my 4 13.5 motors or my 3 10.5 motors; it really doesn't matter to me (and since they're Novak's, I could just turn them in for a refurbed 3.5 )
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Old 01-03-2008, 09:28 AM   #158
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Originally Posted by PitNamedGordie View Post
ROAR has a tough decision to make. If 17.5 will be the new stock they are going to hear it from all of those who own a 13.5. And if 13.5 is stock then they will hear it from those who think itís too fast. Itís a lose/lose for them.
Unfortunately this is the chance you take when you buy in early to new technology. Just think of how pissed all the Beta tape owners were when VHS became the dominant media. Just remember you can't please all of the people all of the time and if you try to accomodate everyone then everyone will still be a little pissed off.

I say applaud ROAR for finally deciding to set some guidelines for Lipo and brushless.
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Old 01-03-2008, 09:28 AM   #159
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Originally Posted by Steve Weiss View Post
Mason,
As an example, are you asking me how difficult it is to take an existing 13.5 unwind it, and rewind it as a 17.5?
If so the answer is that it's not terribly difficult...just wasteful as far as both time and materials go.
Essentially all of the wire + shorting ring need to be removed/disposed of ....and all new winds and shorting ring need to be installed/tested.
We do it here internally on a small scale if there are problems with certain motors or if we are really in a pinch to make some other motors that we don't have in stock...but as far as a solution to customer migration from one wind to another I don't think this particular solution would work.
I didn't mean it in that manner. Perhaps if I stated it this way.. What essentially is the generic difference between say a 5.5, 13.5 and 23.5??
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Old 01-03-2008, 09:29 AM   #160
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Originally Posted by CBear3 View Post
  • 17.5 is the new stock class. Slow things down a bit for the average racer and let them enjoy the racing more instead of just holding on.
  • 13.5 is the new limited modified. Its a tick slower than 19t, but sits pretty much in the middle of 17.5 and mod.
  • Mod is still mod. Run whatever you want, in terms of speed I think we've found the edge with current car designs so it truly is whatever your preference is.
Yes. Exactly.

IMO, 13.5 is too close to a 10.5 and it IS too fast for me, and I would consider myself a fairly experienced racer, though I don't race every weekend. I would be far happier with a car that has the speeds of stock class 10-15 years ago, and the current 27t/13.5 is NOT that.

I'm not a rookie, a kid or a beginner, but I would be far happier racing in a 17.5 (or slower) Stock class on a regular basis. For the guys who have polished and honed their skills enough to compete in a faster class, then they will have the 13.5 and modified classes.


Just one more opinion.
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Old 01-03-2008, 09:29 AM   #161
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Your about to see a ton of 13.5s in the for sale forum. Let the countdown begin.
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Old 01-03-2008, 09:32 AM   #162
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Originally Posted by C_O_jones View Post
Time to throw so more fuel on the fire:

The big push for BL seems to me at least, the cost + frustration factor of running BL being much easier and that is being used to bring new blood to rc racing.
OK, I will go along with that.

Now for the racing part, I watch whats going on at the local tracks and more and more it is turning into, hey, ya gotta try this motor(BL) for this layout, and this new speedo really rips, but keep that other motor and speedo cause for certain layouts it works better, or for this track that other combo works better, but if your gunna do offroad to, you should use this speedo/bl combo.

That will really keep he cost of racing down!

There needs to be a reasonable cost racing class open to the non-pro's and that is stock as it is now, 27t. You can't just kill off the most popular class and if there is no matching BL system now, wait a year or two, the demand is there for BL companies to find a comparable motor.
Come on Fred join the in crowd. Everybodies doing it. Look at the shiny new Bl motor, you know you want one!
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Old 01-03-2008, 09:32 AM   #163
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The other thing with having Amatuer or limited modified be a 13.5 motor class (rather than 10.5) is a lot of the good stock guys, who aren't of the opinion that 13.5 is too fast for "stock," may stay there and leave the 17.5 class to the guys who should be in it. So those guys who are always the subject of the "get out of stock threads" will be able to compete at only a slightly faster speed than they have been, and those who independents still have their class too. Of course that'll only last for about a year until guys drop down and cherry pick it, but its a nice thought
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Old 01-03-2008, 09:33 AM   #164
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Originally Posted by DavidAlford View Post
But what about the thousands of 13.5s that have been sold and are still sitting in hobby shops?

But what about the millions of brushed motors and ESCs that have been sold over the last 30 years? They are all becoming paperweights, too.

Nothing is immune to obsoletism.
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Old 01-03-2008, 09:35 AM   #165
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Originally Posted by PitNamedGordie View Post
I must say that I am not a ROAR member, nor is the track where I go a member of ROAR. As many of us know most tracks will follow, for the most part, ROAR guidelines.

With that said, ROAR must come up with BL rules for all classes.
And there lies the PROBLEM,
Your not a ROAR member, BUT, hey you guys over at ROAR, man, ya really gotta fix this.but don't make anything I paid for obsolete!

So you don't race any ROAR races, regional or nats, but you still want it all without having to get off you arse.

Pit you have good posts, but until you get involved, your words are just a fart in a hurricane.
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