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Old 01-02-2008, 07:08 PM   #16
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I would venture to guess that the local tracks that have to carry a brushed motor to hand-out for stock level racing don't really make enough money to cover the stocking, selling, and tech-ing of these motors at state and regional levels. Having a spec motor for stock racing only causes hassles for the local tracks and tech staff. It usually means that there are one or two more dedicated racers that can't race so that all the motors can be teched. That combined with the fact that the local track is now stuck with a box full of handouts that won't sell right away, most of the time because they aren't 'tuned'. The only people making out in the deal for spec motors is the MFG.

Don't get me wrong, I love racing with brushed motors (one of the crazy few). I also don't believe that you can mix the tech on the spec motor level at big events (regional and higher). This is not because I don't care for brushless, but because the technology is so different.
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Old 01-02-2008, 07:51 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by timmay70 View Post
I would venture to guess that the local tracks that have to carry a brushed motor to hand-out for stock level racing don't really make enough money to cover the stocking, selling, and tech-ing of these motors at state and regional levels.
And that is why I specified nationals.
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Old 01-02-2008, 10:47 PM   #18
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I was just poking fun at the news portion of the ROAR site being pre-dated. After I made the thread I noticed Mason already started a thread...
The wrong date was actually my brain fart

I lost a day somewhere and have been putting the wrong dates today.

Corey
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Old 01-03-2008, 02:12 AM   #19
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what about that new 17.5t wind from Novak. Isn't that supposed to be comparable (at least in terms of peak wattage) to 27t? But a possible problem from this is trying to fit taller gearing to make up for the lack of rpms?
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Old 01-03-2008, 02:23 AM   #20
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Dawn,

I don't know if this can be emphasized enough...I know you've touched on it several times - but sometimes I think some racers see it..yet they DON'T see it...

That is where the ROAR RULES are applied at REGIONAL and NATIONAL EVENTS, and they are used as a Guideline for CLUB/LOCAL events, but it IS encouraged for Local Clubs/Tracks to bend and shape those rules to FIT their LOCAL RACING program.

Too often I think that a lot of Clubs/Tracks feel they have to stay 100% inline with the NATIONAL RULES guidelines, and they PANIC when they don't see something 'legal' on the ROAR RULE BOOK.

I have also seen RACERS try to beat up a Local Club/Track for straying from that NATIONAL RULES guideline to better their program...(Some racers also feel LOCAL RACING HAS TO BE 100% 'by the ROAR book' for ALL events)

...if YOUR local club program has the racers to support a 13.5 Brushless Class - YOU SHOULD BE RUNNING THAT CLASS, just as if your LOCAL group wants to run a 1/18th scale LOSI SLIDER CLASS - although there are no 'sanctioned' rules setforth for those cars by ROAR (That I know of anyway) IT CAN and SHOULD BE RUN.
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Old 01-03-2008, 03:54 AM   #21
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This is getting old about bending the rules. For those clubs out there look at your santioning form from ROAR. Does the word deviation mean anything?At all local(level 1) and level 2 events there can be deviations.The Fla. series has done this since we began racing in 1980.We have been racing the 13.5 with stock 27 turn motors this past year in masters. The guys running the brushed motors kicked our butts (brushless).We also started using hard cased lipos.These are deviations ?The Series will most certianly be 95% lipos and Brushless motors for the 2008 year.By the way the correct answer can be given on jan.21 after the first race of the year.
I've been running brushless since the first prototypes were out- Thank you
Bob Novak. I ran this motor in our series to prove a point. During this time I also took myself out of the points. The more I ran them the more people came up to me and thanked me.Now this year I doubt I will see many brushed motors of any sort at our series races.The same could be said about Lipos.They will be the norm while the sub c's will be disappearing.The only class the sub c's will be in is the 1/12th class since there are presently no saddle packs available.But then I hear that is coming in afew months.
So if you track or local club does not want to let people run with brushless/Brushed motors and lipos ask them? All they have to do is send the ROAR form and include the deviation on the form to the region director.
Dawn keep up the good work!
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Old 01-03-2008, 06:38 AM   #22
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Dawn, just want to back you up on not running brushed and brushless in the same stock class. It just isnt the same and as a result they should not be allowed to run together. Even if they have "similar" laptimes how they get those laptimes is different.

On the otherhand I believe lipo should be allowed to run with nimh batteries.
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Old 01-03-2008, 07:04 AM   #23
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Ok, here's a question that doesn't involve brushless or LiPo. With the growth of Mini (Tamiya M03 and M04) racing across the country (Novak race and others) will ROAR designate it's own set of rules for this or leave that to the individual races and clubs to follow the TCS rules for that class (with the addition of LiPo and/or brushless 17.5 or 21.5). I know it's not nearly as important as the brushless/LiPo debate and I wouldn't want to take away from that but it's a question I've had for a while since it's my favorite type of racing.
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Old 01-03-2008, 07:05 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by HPI RS4 View Post
what about that new 17.5t wind from Novak. Isn't that supposed to be comparable (at least in terms of peak wattage) to 27t? But a possible problem from this is trying to fit taller gearing to make up for the lack of rpms?
Personally I think if a BR stock motor had bearings it might run with a 13.5, Even a 17.5 'stk equivalent' has bearings. The whole bushing thing seems to be ancient tech and bearings would also increase lifespan and decrease temp.
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Old 01-03-2008, 07:48 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by Dawn Sanchez View Post
oh, the date thing... so I'm ahead a bit... looking to the future.... I have no idea how I managed to think today was the 3rd. OH well....

To answer questions:

our first meeting of 2008 to complete the 2008 rules is Jan. 12th - 14th. Yep, a bit late... c'mon... I just got this job 2 weeks ago... LOL

Lipo - yes, they will be approved. We will have limitations and we are referring to Ling Tong specifically for advise.

BL's - yes, the rules are opening up a bit for 10.5, 13.5, 17.5... whatever .5.... as for running with brushed... I'm against doing that in the stock classes but not 19T or as we have had, modified. We will discuss that at our meeting.

DAWN - First CONGRATULATIONS on your new post! After meeting you at the ROAR Electric Off-Road Nationals in New Mexico, no doubt ROAR is definitely in good hands! By the way I was the one from halfway around the world filming the Races from the stands with Jimmy's blessings. BRAVO too on the quick decision to approve LiPo battery packs! Brushless Motors and LiPo Packs are a huge step in the very right direction for Electric Racing... as we both witnessed in the Stadium Truck demo class down in Albuquerque! Keep up the great work and Kudos to all of you at ROAR!
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Old 01-03-2008, 07:59 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by SWTour View Post
Dawn,

I don't know if this can be emphasized enough...I know you've touched on it several times - but sometimes I think some racers see it..yet they DON'T see it...

That is where the ROAR RULES are applied at REGIONAL and NATIONAL EVENTS, and they are used as a Guideline for CLUB/LOCAL events, but it IS encouraged for Local Clubs/Tracks to bend and shape those rules to FIT their LOCAL RACING program.

Too often I think that a lot of Clubs/Tracks feel they have to stay 100% inline with the NATIONAL RULES guidelines, and they PANIC when they don't see something 'legal' on the ROAR RULE BOOK.

I have also seen RACERS try to beat up a Local Club/Track for straying from that NATIONAL RULES guideline to better their program...(Some racers also feel LOCAL RACING HAS TO BE 100% 'by the ROAR book' for ALL events)

...if YOUR local club program has the racers to support a 13.5 Brushless Class - YOU SHOULD BE RUNNING THAT CLASS, just as if your LOCAL group wants to run a 1/18th scale LOSI SLIDER CLASS - although there are no 'sanctioned' rules setforth for those cars by ROAR (That I know of anyway) IT CAN and SHOULD BE RUN.


Everybody... read that...

thanks!!!
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Old 01-03-2008, 08:01 AM   #27
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On the otherhand I believe lipo should be allowed to run with nimh batteries.
Me too and I apologize if I inferred something different... I might have... several threads yesterday popped up and I felt I needed to keep up.

Corey- I took the heat dude.... they truly believed it was my missing mind that dated it a day ahead... LOL
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Old 01-03-2008, 08:03 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by muahdib4 View Post
Ok, here's a question that doesn't involve brushless or LiPo. With the growth of Mini (Tamiya M03 and M04) racing across the country (Novak race and others) will ROAR designate it's own set of rules for this or leave that to the individual races and clubs to follow the TCS rules for that class (with the addition of LiPo and/or brushless 17.5 or 21.5). I know it's not nearly as important as the brushless/LiPo debate and I wouldn't want to take away from that but it's a question I've had for a while since it's my favorite type of racing.
ROAR does not create classes nor kill classes... well, we all hope..

But... ROAR Membership can create classes by getting involved.... reach a class committee chairperson and discuss this with that person... (on road electric is Tim Potter, he's here, a lot!!) and see if the specs and guidelines can be written. Its a long process but it can be done if the membership WANTS the class and the participation level proves it.
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Old 01-03-2008, 08:07 AM   #29
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Me too and I apologize if I inferred something different...
You didnt, I just wanted to say it as well
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Old 01-03-2008, 06:45 PM   #30
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Thanks for the good job Dawn
Lipos and brushless are the future and the future is now
hope to see you in the classic with ruben and hopefully jerry from the valley in the next few months
keep us updated
Thanks
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