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Old 01-05-2008, 06:03 PM   #121
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MetalMan, I presume this with the Mamba motors? Wondering if you have had any experience running the Novak 13.5 motor with the Mamba Max esc? Is it more of a problem in these situations?
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Old 01-05-2008, 11:41 PM   #122
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MetalMan, I presume this with the Mamba motors? Wondering if you have had any experience running the Novak 13.5 motor with the Mamba Max esc? Is it more of a problem in these situations?
It's been with Feigao motors, Mamba Max motors, and even with my Neu 1512 2.5D in my Hyper 8 (although the Nue/MM combination does lead to some startup cogging, but it doesn't affect the rolling backward situation). I've never used any motor intended for sensored usage.
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Old 01-06-2008, 12:09 AM   #123
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It's been with Feigao motors, Mamba Max motors, and even with my Neu 1512 2.5D in my Hyper 8 (although the Nue/MM combination does lead to some startup cogging, but it doesn't affect the rolling backward situation). I've never used any motor intended for sensored usage.
I will back up this post

I havent had any issues either....... With all kinds of motors.....
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Old 01-06-2008, 01:39 AM   #124
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The goal of modified racing has always been to un-level the playing field....
The goal of mod racing is not to have an un-level playing field but to allow technology to advance for the bennifit of all.

MOD racers then turn up with the new technology ie a more efficient more powerful motor but it is open to all racers and all racers will be using the same fastest technology so the playing field is again even.
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Old 01-06-2008, 04:06 AM   #125
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I don't race much, however my RCs are put in this situation a lot. At least with the Mamba Max ESCs I use (and have been using, I was a beta tester for them), the cogging while rolling backwards with forward throttle has been nonexistant. The ESCs always brakes, and at a certain point will drive forward, without any hint of abnormal cogging.

But with the Tekin ESC, I have no idea if this is an issue. Anybody know if it is?
There's a delay while a sensorless ESC has to 'work out' the rotor position before it can 'restart', it may not be obvious but it has to go through this process. It may not result in cogging or faltering, but there's always a time delay that sensored systems do not have.
Any delay is lost time when you're racing! Sensorless has problems/issues that sensored does not.
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Old 01-06-2008, 04:44 AM   #126
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That is potentially true depending on the design used.

If you had to wait for a zero crossing depening on the current rpm that could take a noticable amount of time. An alternate method could be to measure the votlage for each phase to work out the position. I can potentially see using both being almost ideal, zero crossings for high rpm and phase voltage for low speed.

What method is the best comprimise and how well you can overcome the design challanges is where all the R&D goes.

Given Tekin's passed history and the time taken on R&D to insure the ESC is as good as possible you can be assured it is going to be great.
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Old 01-06-2008, 05:23 AM   #127
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There's a delay while a sensorless ESC has to 'work out' the rotor position before it can 'restart', it may not be obvious but it has to go through this process. It may not result in cogging or faltering, but there's always a time delay that sensored systems do not have.
Any delay is lost time when you're racing! Sensorless has problems/issues that sensored does not.
The fix for this in sensorless controllers has usually been faster processing speed and better programming.
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Old 01-06-2008, 08:48 AM   #128
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R1 Pro in TRF416
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Old 01-06-2008, 02:34 PM   #129
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The fix for this in sensorless controllers has usually been faster processing speed and better programming.
The same can be used for sensored, faster processing speed and better programming to give a control and performance advantage. For racing sensored can't be beaten for having an instant response with no (however small) time delay. Even if you never crash or have an 'incident' you will still lose out with the delay from standstill at the race start. The drivers with sensored will have gained an advantage away from the start line, assuming they get the start right that is!
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Old 01-06-2008, 03:15 PM   #130
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The same can be used for sensored, faster processing speed and better programming to give a control and performance advantage. For racing sensored can't be beaten for having an instant response with no (however small) time delay. Even if you never crash or have an 'incident' you will still lose out with the delay from standstill at the race start. The drivers with sensored will have gained an advantage away from the start line, assuming they get the start right that is!
I know with the MM I can change the settings to be dang smooth, with my orion/LRP set up, I get the occasional cog, just like my MM would, off the line it wouldnt cog, and when its rolling backwards and you punch it it wouldnt cog, a TC is so light, that it will either spin the tires (not often) Or it will take off hard

No the sensorless wont be as smooth and a sensored set up, but IMO, and for my applications, I can get them dang close, I think with lipos, and a good sensorless esc is the key

But in the touring car, I have only tried the sensorless set up with a MM, and a orion 10.5 with a TrakPower lipo in practice, I havent raced it, I was just curious how it ran
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Old 01-06-2008, 03:49 PM   #131
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I know with the MM I can change the settings to be dang smooth, with my orion/LRP set up, I get the occasional cog, just like my MM would, off the line it wouldnt cog, and when its rolling backwards and you punch it it wouldnt cog, a TC is so light, that it will either spin the tires (not often) Or it will take off hard

No the sensorless wont be as smooth and a sensored set up, but IMO, and for my applications, I can get them dang close, I think with lipos, and a good sensorless esc is the key

But in the touring car, I have only tried the sensorless set up with a MM, and a orion 10.5 with a TrakPower lipo in practice, I havent raced it, I was just curious how it ran
When you're racing it's worth knowing about any potential disadvantages and finding ways round them, or using any gains to your advantage. In the case of brushless ESC's I would choose a controller with both sensored and sensorless to get the best of both. Sensorless is great for use when racing in the wet (which we seem to do quite often in Europe and the UK!).
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Old 01-06-2008, 03:51 PM   #132
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hey jev you racing west kent sunday im in the mood for thrashing brushless on the race track.
Hi Stu, soz did not get time to reply earlier, as you found I missed out of west kent again. I was racing bikes and tt01 at aldershot,, got 3 out of 4 wins and pole'd bikes . West kent is on hold till I sort car and batteries out. Would be better if it was just 27/13.5 and ditch the 19t/10.5 class there.

I'd be intersted to see how this tekin handles a novak 13.5 with sintered and bonded rotors. I've heard it all before how faultless sensorless drive is and then you start to get contradiciting stories apearing .

If a motor cogs even once, that's one too many times to be acceptable in racing..
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Old 01-07-2008, 12:12 PM   #133
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Hi Stu, soz did not get time to reply earlier, as you found I missed out of west kent again. I was racing bikes and tt01 at aldershot,, got 3 out of 4 wins and pole'd bikes . West kent is on hold till I sort car and batteries out. Would be better if it was just 27/13.5 and ditch the 19t/10.5 class there.

I'd be intersted to see how this tekin handles a novak 13.5 with sintered and bonded rotors. I've heard it all before how faultless sensorless drive is and then you start to get contradiciting stories apearing .

If a motor cogs even once, that's one too many times to be acceptable in racing..
why would you wanna ditch 19t class i thought racing was to go as fast as possible and as they dont race mod 19t is the way to go any ways brushed was the victor at the weekend and there realy isn't any think in the speed between brushed and brushless my car must have just been better.
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Old 01-07-2008, 02:31 PM   #134
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If a motor cogs even once, that's one too many times to be acceptable in racing..
Well better go back to brushed setups as even sensored ESC cog ocasionally.
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Old 01-07-2008, 04:01 PM   #135
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Originally Posted by Terry_S View Post
When you're racing it's worth knowing about any potential disadvantages and finding ways round them, or using any gains to your advantage. In the case of brushless ESC's I would choose a controller with both sensored and sensorless to get the best of both. Sensorless is great for use when racing in the wet (which we seem to do quite often in Europe and the UK!).
Thats true

Im pretty sure when I get a package shipped out, I will get my last 50 bucks so I will have 240$ and im going to buy a R1PRO, its FOR my CRT.5, but I will use it in racing, because I still dont have a real motor for it yet, so I will try it, and see if its good to race with, but its really for my .5
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