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Old 01-03-2008, 03:14 AM   #76
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Originally Posted by TRF415boy View Post
So far the only issue has been with 4 cell oval with 13.5s and are a consequence of the huge rollouts used. As far as I know there were no issues with the other motors, and chances are the problem won't even arise with Tekin's own motors.
sensorless not best then? Tekin motors work ok? have Tekin tested motors?

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so how correct is my statement at the top of this post are sensorless more powerfull than sensored.
sensorless more powerfull than sensored answer NO!

read here > sensor vs sensorless

it give all answers sensored vs sensorless!
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Old 01-03-2008, 03:35 AM   #77
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I as a buyer find it very hard to trust Novak's page because they have a vested interest in pushing sensored technology.
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Old 01-03-2008, 10:30 AM   #78
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Originally Posted by sagino View Post
sensorless not best then? Tekin motors work ok? have Tekin tested motors?



sensorless more powerfull than sensored answer NO!

read here > sensor vs sensorless

it give all answers sensored vs sensorless!
Sensorless and sensored are different technologies that's all. They both have their advantages and their inconvenients.

That article has been written by a company that has all its eggs into the sensored technology, do you really think they'll say that sensorless is better? If you want to know more about them, I recommend reading some material from outside the RC industry...
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Old 01-03-2008, 11:35 AM   #79
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"I as a buyer find it very hard to trust Novak's page because they have a vested interest in pushing sensored technology."

so go buy a mamba or an R1 if and when you can get it. you'll find out why sensorless is dominating right now. don't get me wrong, the mamba is a machine. and it has NEVER thermaled on me (sorry novak, but i hope you have a new version in the works...). but for off road or other forms other then touring sensorless is better. and i have yet to get the low end rip (in tc) out of the mamba that a 5.5 novak has on the bottom.

tekins promise of never releasing the R1 until it is perfect is gone. and from experience (mine and others i race with), sensorless don't run novak style (ie delta (?) wind motors) without cogging. and that includes low wind motors.

so who are you going to believe now? accepting tekin's claim that sensorless is just as good or better then sensored is just as bad as not trusting novak...

no flame intended, but i have to give my 2 cents, as i've run every combo of brushless around.
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Old 01-03-2008, 03:34 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Rev View Post
"I as a buyer find it very hard to trust Novak's page because they have a vested interest in pushing sensored technology."

so go buy a mamba or an R1 if and when you can get it. you'll find out why sensorless is dominating right now. don't get me wrong, the mamba is a machine. and it has NEVER thermaled on me (sorry novak, but i hope you have a new version in the works...). but for off road or other forms other then touring sensorless is better. and i have yet to get the low end rip (in tc) out of the mamba that a 5.5 novak has on the bottom.

tekins promise of never releasing the R1 until it is perfect is gone. and from experience (mine and others i race with), sensorless don't run novak style (ie delta (?) wind motors) without cogging. and that includes low wind motors.

so who are you going to believe now? accepting tekin's claim that sensorless is just as good or better then sensored is just as bad as not trusting novak...

no flame intended, but i have to give my 2 cents, as i've run every combo of brushless around.
Your post is quite confusing, I think you're pretty confused with the whole B/L technology and that's why you say sensorless when you should say sensored, etc...

GM have a system that runs better in sensorless mode than in sensored, and that's according to the BRCA national champion. I trust him better than you, no offence mate. I've not experienced any cogging either with my 4.5 or 3.5 (in 5-cell).

At least Tekin have aknowledged that in some applications a sensored system is better, and are doing their best to develop a system for that application.
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Old 01-03-2008, 04:15 PM   #81
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yea that's what I was saying.

How can I trust a company that's saying 'sensored is better!' when they are the ones selling sensored technology? of course they're gonna say their stuff is better. It's simply marketing disguised as research. It confuses people who haven't done any research and convinces them into buying into sensored technology.

I'd rather take the advice from an objective person in this hobby.

"so who are you going to believe now? accepting tekin's claim that sensorless is just as good or better then sensored is just as bad as not trusting novak..."

I know you said 'no flame intended' but I find it very hard to take it any other way than a flame. and an uncalled for one at that.

Last edited by Sabin; 01-03-2008 at 04:36 PM.
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Old 01-03-2008, 04:39 PM   #82
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I just re-read the Sensored vs Sensorless article from our website and I'm confused as to why some of you see it as so prejudicial and lacking in objectivity.

The different brushless technologies are described correctly, in my opinion. Perhaps, you could point out just where Novak claims that "sensored is better"?

There is no need to trust Novak's information about brushless technology. By all means read whatever you can find. What other RC company has taken the time to offer a detailed explanation of the differences and posted that information to their website?

How about posting those links?
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Old 01-03-2008, 05:59 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by NovakTwo View Post
I just re-read the Sensored vs Sensorless article from our website and I'm confused as to why some of you see it as so prejudicial and lacking in objectivity.

The different brushless technologies are described correctly, in my opinion. Perhaps, you could point out just where Novak claims that "sensored is better"?
"the Sensor based feedback system is much faster, more reliable, and overall far superior"

sounds pretty biased to me
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Old 01-03-2008, 06:12 PM   #84
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"the Sensor based feedback system is much faster, more reliable, and overall far superior"

sounds pretty biased to me
Are you saying that the statement is incorrect?
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Old 01-03-2008, 06:17 PM   #85
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No what I think he is saying is when Novak says that the sensored feedback system is "far superior", that in other words is saying that's it's better.
I like Novaks gear; it's some of the best stuff out.
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Old 01-03-2008, 06:23 PM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NovakTwo View Post
Are you saying that the statement is incorrect?
Faster, so software computation is slower than a wire transfer of info.
More reliable I've had 2 novak sensor harnesses failed out of the package with broken leads @ the connector.
Far superior...not an objective statement.

Not saying it's not true, but it is biased, as would be expected from any companies website.
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Old 01-03-2008, 06:38 PM   #87
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I challenged the comment upthread that our article said that Novak claimed "sensored is better".

Now a new charge is made that certain claims are biased. We also say:

Quote:
Sensor based motors are most often used in applications where the starting torque varies greatly or where a high initial torque is required, such as in a RC car. If one looks at the industrial or aerospace applications of brushless motors, one would be hard pressed to find sensorless motors being used due to lack of starting torque and unreliable operation under noisy electrical conditions. Sensored brushless ESC motor systems always know the position of the rotor. This is especially critical at low speed as well as at the start condition when there is no rotor movement. With the proper rotor position information, the ESC can apply power to the correct rotor phase combination.
Is this also biased? Is it untrue?
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Old 01-03-2008, 06:45 PM   #88
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If Novak feels sensored motors are "far superior", then they should have little objection to allowing sensorless to compete in ROAR events. They would simply be able to dominate the competition, correct?

What better way to demonstrate their superiority than going head-to-head?
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Old 01-03-2008, 06:45 PM   #89
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dude... face it... its a marketing article. theres nothing wrong with that. thats what companies do. they push their products. but trying to pass that off as a scientific comparison is just silly.

Last edited by jhautz; 01-03-2008 at 08:28 PM.
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Old 01-03-2008, 06:49 PM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ~McSmooth~ View Post
If Novak feels sensored motors are "far superior", then they should have little objection to allowing sensorless to compete in ROAR events. They would simply be able to dominate the competition, correct?

What better way to demonstrate their superiority than going head-to-head?
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