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Old 01-10-2008, 02:39 PM   #151
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Thanks, I thought I was caught up on this thread but I guess not. Guess I will go back...
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Old 01-10-2008, 02:49 PM   #152
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so the R1 Pro works well with Orion brushless motors?? thanks

Most are having good success with the modified motors. Remember even a bad solder joint can cause hesitations in sensorless. All the connections, including in the motor, are important for best operation.
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Old 01-10-2008, 02:55 PM   #153
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oh wow, no 10.5 or 13.5 until then? Ouch. What is the reasoning for that? Seems thats what most people run these days. Guess I will need to hold off on the R1 and wait for the RS.

Is there any info on the RS? Will it be roughly the same size as the R1?
They are designed and we have the protos, we just have not built quantity yet. Since they work with all the sensored controllers we probably should just put them out. Truth be known we are still waiting for the ROAR rules to be decided to make sure we are not almost legal like all the motors currently entering the market. They have done a fabulous job of keeping us out of the market with the delays. Everyone just threw motors out that do not meet the current rule proposal for multiple reasons and really put a kink in the whole try to make them equal goal. IT is going to be interesting to watch it play out.

All the motor brand names were invited to participate in the ROAR brushless motor committee. None offered much in terms of technical input and so we ended up with a partial specification for the Novak as a set of proposed rules. None of the current motors being sold meet these rules due to magnet diameter and I suspect wire size and number of strands. This includes all the brands buying from ‘the supplier’. No one has made any effort to keep things fair or equal. It is more of a get to market quick and deal with it later… at the expense of you all.

We are trying to do what is right long term for everyones sake.

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Old 01-10-2008, 02:57 PM   #154
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Most are having good success with the modified motors. Remember even a bad solder joint can cause hesitations in sensorless. All the connections, including in the motor, are important for best operation.
cool thanks!!
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Old 01-10-2008, 02:57 PM   #155
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Hk was tested
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Sweet! Congratulations and Thank You.

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Old 01-10-2008, 03:05 PM   #156
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They are designed and we have the protos, we just have not built quantity yet. Since they work with all the sensored controllers we probably should just put them out. Truth be known we are still waiting for the ROAR rules to be decided to make sure we are not almost legal like all the motors currently entering the market. They have done a fabulous job of keeping us out of the market with the delays. Everyone just threw motors out that do not meet the current rule proposal for multiple reasons and really put a kink in the whole try to make them equal goal. IT is going to be interesting to watch it play out.

All the motor brand names were invited to participate in the ROAR brushless motor committee. None offered much in terms of technical input and so we ended up with a partial specification for the Novak as a set of proposed rules. None of the current motors being sold meet these rules due to magnet diameter and I suspect wire size and number of strands. This includes all the brands buying from ‘the supplier’. No one has made any effort to keep things fair or equal. It is more of a get to market quick and deal with it later… at the expense of you all.

We are trying to do what is right long term for everyones sake.

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Thanks for the thorough explanation! I can see the dilemma. Its definately a weird time in RC and we have a bunch of "chicken and egg" syndrome going on.
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Old 01-10-2008, 03:07 PM   #157
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632 - 537 - 448 - 362 are all available. The rest are due shortly. Most preorders were for the speedo and systems, not a lot of people had motors ordered so it will take a while for them to be on the shelves. Most had ordered the 13.5 and the 10.5 which we are not releasing until we release the RS controller.

Stormer has all the motors and systems as of today I think. We are shipping everyday as fast we can.

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So is the 13.5 going to end up being a sensored motor? Will the RS be able to run in both sensored and sensorless modes?
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Old 01-10-2008, 03:10 PM   #158
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Here is a pic of the RS from a few pages back. It looks like the same size.
I am pretty sure it will be the same size as the pro from what ive heard
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Old 01-10-2008, 03:31 PM   #159
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So is the 13.5 going to end up being a sensored motor? Will the RS be able to run in both sensored and sensorless modes?
Yes, we are making a full line of motors from 2.5 turns to 21.5 turns that are sensored, legal, and can be used with other sensored controllers.

Yes the RS will operate in sensorless or sensored. If you do not plug in the sensors it will automatically use sensorless mode.

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I am pretty sure it will be the same size as the pro from what ive heard
Yes it is the same case with a hole in the side for the plug to stick out.

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Old 01-10-2008, 04:07 PM   #160
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That's awesome...will there be a sensorless 13.5 motor as well or just sensored? I'd really like to be able to not have sensor wires in my 1/12th running a 13.5. It cleans things up a lot and reduces the chances of wire tweak that much more so.
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Old 01-10-2008, 04:08 PM   #161
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Yes the RS will operate in sensorless or sensored. If you do not plug in the sensors it will automatically use sensorless mode.

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If it can operate in either mode, is there a reason to keep the R1 after the RS is released? Will the RS be missing something the R1 has or vice-versa? Is the RS going to cost a lot more?
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Old 01-10-2008, 05:03 PM   #162
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That's awesome...will there be a sensorless 13.5 motor as well or just sensored? I'd really like to be able to not have sensor wires in my 1/12th running a 13.5. It cleans things up a lot and reduces the chances of wire tweak that much more so.
You don't need a sensorless motor. Just don't plug in a cable. But high turn sloted motors will not run well without using sensors. As much as you don't like to have an extra little wire you will not get as good control with out it, period.

Sensored or Sensorless is not a type of motor. It is the method the esc uses to detect the rotor possition. It just so happens that sensorless rotor detection is very poor with high turn slotted motors(roar,ifmar,efra,brca legal).

Besides you lose the ability for esc to monitor motor temps.
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Old 01-10-2008, 05:13 PM   #163
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Does TEKIN make a sensorless 13.5 that works fine with a R1Pro? or will we need to buy a sensored 13.5 and a rs?
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Old 01-10-2008, 05:20 PM   #164
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You don't need a sensorless motor. Just don't plug in a cable. But high turn sloted motors will not run well without using sensors. As much as you don't like to have an extra little wire you will not get as good control with out it, period.

Sensored or Sensorless is not a type of motor. It is the method the esc uses to detect the rotor possition. It just so happens that sensorless rotor detection is very poor with high turn slotted motors(roar,ifmar,efra,brca legal).

Besides you lose the ability for esc to monitor motor temps.
From what has been posted the problems with high turn motors are only occuring in oval racing. I'll be road racing so won't have near the roll out and should not run into any issues that is prompting the construction of the RS. Also from what people have reported thus far with the R1 the detection has been anything but "very poor". I understand sensored and sensorless refers to the method of detection...however a motor made specifically for sensorless will not have the harness at all. If the harness is removeable that is fine but it is more then just a case of not plugging it in. The only BL setup I owned was a very early one and the harness was not removeable from the motor and I would rather not cut the harness wires off. As for monitoring motor temps...That isn't something I am particularly looking for.
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Old 01-10-2008, 05:32 PM   #165
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Mr Tekin,
Other than the ability to run the higher turn motors better - are there any advantages of getting the RS over the R1?
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