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Old 04-08-2008, 07:25 AM   #586
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Panther420: Hi. By outer ackerman i assume you mean front or back on the spindle?. I always use the back position(farther away from the axle).
I used 2deg caster in vegas because they made my car very easy to drive, but i do think 2's have less corner speed than 4's.
All the testing that i did at home was on low traction. a spool is best suited for low bite, in lower grip conditions you can drive alot harder and normally be faster and more consistent than with a one way. in vegas alot of guys ended up running a one way twords the end of qualifing as grip came up and that worked for them. I stuck it out with a spool the whole time but by the main it was clear to me that a one way would have been a better choice.
So for now i think my general rule of thumb will be spool for rubber only events and one way for the major races that Foam tire racers are in attendence.

Thanks.

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Old 04-09-2008, 07:08 PM   #587
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this sheet is incomplete. what front toe are you running. what front shims are you using for the arms.

have you really run this set up or this this just a inside joke or something. this is the weirdest setup i have ever seen.


why is it when the front and rear shocks have the same oil and spring dos the rear feel so stiff compared to the front. i am just wondering. i have a friend with the t2 and another with a 008 and they both have the same question.
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Old 04-09-2008, 07:36 PM   #588
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steve, to the shock question, it's because the rear shocks are much farther out from the inner hinge pin than the front shocks. That causes the rear shocks to feel stiffer, and causes us to run much softer springs in the rear.
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Old 04-10-2008, 01:13 AM   #589
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Paul,

How do I kidnap you and take you to the track with me? lol j/k. My real question is how do I get a setup sheet from barry for crystal park?
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Old 04-10-2008, 06:25 AM   #590
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Paul

Thanks again for that assist with my binding problem. I would have never guessed that it was the A arm. Thanks again
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Old 04-10-2008, 06:40 AM   #591
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Default Help please Mr. Lemieux

Quote:
Originally Posted by xraysteve View Post
ok i am sorry if i seem stupid but i want to get this right.

the las vegas setup shows the roll center front 00 and +75 in the rear of the front and the rear 00 and 00. is that right. the setup sheet dos not show were to put the center camber link at all not the front or the rear.

if you want me to run the rear arms as low to the chassis as they will go that would be -75 and -75. i have the us chassis and the extra hard arms bind on the chassis.

i hope you can understand some of what i am saying
Paul,
To add to this question and gain some clarity for me and maybe some others on this. Local team driver gave me his tip on rollcentre. The more angled down the camber link is, the higher the roll centre. The lower angle or closer to parallel to the control arm, the higher the roll centre. Additional reading suggests that the further roll centre is from CG then the more roll the chassis will show. So, by lowering RC the car will roll less and create less traction. By raising, it will create more. If all this is correct then this fellas experience with traction rolling and loose rear end would be the result the combination of low roll centre rear and higher roll centre front. Right? Thanks.
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Old 04-10-2008, 06:58 AM   #592
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Xraysteve: i updated the sheet with those catagories filled in. Adamge is right about the shock question, the farther out your shock is on the arm the stiffer the spring and oil will be. Or you could think of it like this, lets say your shock is mounted to the outer suspension pin (somehow), to push the chassis down 5mm the shock will compress 5mms or 1to1. If the shock were mounted to the arm exactly half way inbetween the inner pin and outer pin you would push the chassis down 5mms and the shock would only moove 2.5mms or 2to1, resulting in the car feeling much softer and less progressive feeling do to the reduced travel.
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Old 04-10-2008, 07:22 AM   #593
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rx7ttlm: Hi, You would need to start with a cargo van and a couple of friends to jump out and grab me on your way to the track.lol
I bet that barry reads this once in a while. Ill do this to grab his attention when he is skimming the thread.
BARRY<BARRY<BARRY<BARRY<BARRY<BARRY BAKER.


Ridgeracer: no problem atall.

Todd8603: i understand most of what you said but i dont think of things like that, even though i think it is accurate.
I always talk about the roll center being adjusted from the lower inner hinge pin only, a camber link change also dose do this but i always think of the link as camber gain only. it makes it easier for me. but im not sure that i understand what you were saying completely. It is hard to translate these types of things here. Sorry
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Old 04-10-2008, 08:43 AM   #594
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Quote:
Originally Posted by todd8603 View Post
Paul,
To add to this question and gain some clarity for me and maybe some others on this. Local team driver gave me his tip on rollcentre. The more angled down the camber link is, the higher the roll centre. The lower angle or closer to parallel to the control arm, the higher the roll centre. Additional reading suggests that the further roll centre is from CG then the more roll the chassis will show. So, by lowering RC the car will roll less and create less traction. By raising, it will create more. If all this is correct then this fellas experience with traction rolling and loose rear end would be the result the combination of low roll centre rear and higher roll centre front. Right? Thanks.

more angled camber link = higher roll center
more parallel camber link = lower roll center
lower roll center = more chassis roll
higher roll center = less chassis roll

It's really confusing and very easy to get backwards.
I like Paul's idea that he thinks of roll center adjustment in terms of hinge pin height. That really does simplify it.
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Old 04-10-2008, 08:46 AM   #595
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Quote:
Originally Posted by todd8603 View Post
Paul,
To add to this question and gain some clarity for me and maybe some others on this. Local team driver gave me his tip on rollcentre. The more angled down the camber link is, the higher the roll centre. The lower angle or closer to parallel to the control arm, the lower the roll centre.
with rubber tires, our arms will angle down to the chasis a bit, and the above holds true. however, on foams our touring cars run almost flat arms at r/h. if the arms are completely horizontal, changing the camber link inclination will have no effect on the (static) roll center. see the following for reference:



and if the arms angle up to the chassis (old rdx setups and high rear roll centers in general) the effect of the camber link on roll center is reversed. it's all to do with the lower arms.

however, like paul said, the larger effect from the links is related to camber gain and what that does during roll. if you want to change the roll center, do it at the lower pins. it will be much more profound (and simple). up is up, and down is down. otherwise, there is no blanket statement about how changing the links will affect the r/c.

obey the man. i just thought i'd offer a visual on the deal to help him out.

i also have more visual material for you, specifically, paul. what?
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Old 04-10-2008, 08:56 AM   #596
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jag88 View Post
more angled camber link = higher roll center (not always)
more parallel camber link = lower roll center (not always)
lower roll center = more chassis roll (yes)
higher roll center = less chassis roll (yes)

It's really confusing and very easy to get backwards. (because the links shouldn't be used to adjust chassis roll itself, but to adjust what your tire does durring the roll.)
I like Paul's idea that he thinks of roll center adjustment in terms of hinge pin height. That really does simplify it. (yes. geometrically, the lower arms have a much greater effect on the r/c.)
more above.

paul, feel free to elaborate. (this being your thread and all)
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Old 04-10-2008, 09:09 AM   #597
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Jag88: yep thats right, as seaball said most of the time.

seaball: Thanks, that cleared some things up.

With set-ups I think its not really what you are doing to the car, Its what effects that change acually had on the track. What will less or more do for you this time?. I think when you take too much into consideration when making a change you will convince yourself that it will be good even if it sucks, just because you think you know what it will do by the book. I always try and keep an open mind and never think I Know anything for sure.

Thanks, paul
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Old 04-10-2008, 09:16 AM   #598
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seaball: your new sensae should be one William E.
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Old 04-10-2008, 09:22 AM   #599
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Default 13.5 in a 007

Paul - not sure if you have much time w/ the 13.5's, but I am having an issue mounting mine in the 007. A couple weeks ago I tried to mount a SP 13.5 in my 007, and the small lip / wring on the end of the motor (bulkhead side) hit the rear of the motor mount, not allowing me to get the gears meshed (100/38). I had the motor mounted so the tabs are at the top. I had been running the Novak 13.5, and it has a flat surface, so setting the mesh was not an issue. Any help would be appreciated.
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Old 04-10-2008, 09:32 AM   #600
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A. Rhodes: Hi, are you talking about around the bearing?
I have had no problem with my Trinity stuff. ill look later when im at the track. Thanks
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