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Old 12-20-2007, 12:13 PM   #1
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Default 10.5 Brushless help please

Hi Guys
I would like a little advice on the 10.5 brushless systems that are around ATM its just I fancy going down this route now, but have no idea really what there all about. Does anyone have any links that I can read up on, ie sintered arms, how they differ from bonded arms, and how do they work in relation to brushed motors, other than stating the obvious. What is the favored system ATM
Cheers Malc THECANMAN
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Old 12-20-2007, 12:21 PM   #2
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http://www.teamnovak.com/products/br...ems/index.html
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Old 12-20-2007, 01:32 PM   #3
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...I may be way off base here..and If I am I'm sure someone will correct me...

But I think of the rotor this way, in comparison to a BRUSHED/WOUND armature.

Small Arm/ few turns...HI RPM/

Big ARm/lots of turns ie: STOCK...LOW RPM

More turns yet - LOWER RPM (like the motors used on some dynos that had like 50 turns)

...similarly - a small diam. 'sintered' rotor, should be HIGHER RPM where something like the newer 'tuning' sintered rotor Novak makes, would create a lower rpm.

The lower rpm motors I believe will produce more torque.

between the sintered and bonded rotor...the bonded rotor is large in diameter and has very little magnetic strength compared to a sintered rotor. (You can tell this as easy as trying to pull a sintered rotor from the motor..it almost takes FORCE and the use of PLIERS, where a bonded rotor has so little magnetic pull..you can't hardly feel the resistance when removing it from the can.

More magnetic force - should produce MORE pull/power.

....does that make sense...or am I off someplace?
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Old 12-20-2007, 01:48 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SWTour View Post
...I may be way off base here..and If I am I'm sure someone will correct me...

But I think of the rotor this way, in comparison to a BRUSHED/WOUND armature.

Small Arm/ few turns...HI RPM/

Big ARm/lots of turns ie: STOCK...LOW RPM

More turns yet - LOWER RPM (like the motors used on some dynos that had like 50 turns)

...similarly - a small diam. 'sintered' rotor, should be HIGHER RPM where something like the newer 'tuning' sintered rotor Novak makes, would create a lower rpm.

The lower rpm motors I believe will produce more torque.

between the sintered and bonded rotor...the bonded rotor is large in diameter and has very little magnetic strength compared to a sintered rotor. (You can tell this as easy as trying to pull a sintered rotor from the motor..it almost takes FORCE and the use of PLIERS, where a bonded rotor has so little magnetic pull..you can't hardly feel the resistance when removing it from the can.

More magnetic force - should produce MORE pull/power.

....does that make sense...or am I off someplace?
Dude, this is exactly what I need it makes perfect sense what your saying, it works the same way to a brushed motor, small arm more revs, large arm more torque. Nice one. Any thing I should know about what speedos do what ?
Malc
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Old 12-21-2007, 06:51 AM   #5
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Any thing I should know about what speedos do what ?
Malc
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Old 12-21-2007, 11:40 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCoolCanFanMan View Post
Any thing I should know about what speedos do what ?
Malc
Don't buy a cheap one!
They seem to 'thermal' out far too easily.

As the rolling resistance of the brushless is far lower than brushed you might want to consider an ESC with drag brakes etc so you can make it feel more like a brushed to begin with.

They talk about motors having temp sensors etc but I have never seen a car shutdown because the motor was too hot, only the ESC, the motors don't seem to mind melting completely!

Gear a bit lower than a standard 19t, the 10.5's have higher RPM as well as power, where as the 13.5's are typically 1000rpm/V less (more like a standard 27t).

Both types seem to have lots of torque though.

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Old 12-21-2007, 12:11 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skiddins View Post

Gear a bit lower than a standard 19t, the 10.5's have higher RPM as well as power, where as the 13.5's are typically 1000rpm/V less (more like a standard 27t).

Both types seem to have lots of torque though.

Skiddins
Gear Lower????

Don't you mean gear higher... BL motors require a larger pinion for a much larger roll-out then a typical 19T?

Depending on the BL motor you are getting, you will be gearing at least 5 teeth higher then a typical 19t motor.
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Old 12-21-2007, 12:15 PM   #8
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I run both NOVAK and LRP B/L ESC's, and have thermalled a couple times when I first started running B/L's.

I generally try to keep my motor temps under 180, (TIGHT, FAST OVAL) everywhere else seems to be closer to 160-165 max (except during extremely Hot days of Summer)

The NOVAK system (Motor and ESC) has a thermal limiter if the Motor gets too hot, but if you use other 'sensored' motors with a NOVAK ESC, I don't believe they have a Motor Temp sensor. Same goes if you use the LRP ESC with a NOVAK motor, I don't believe the motor's temp sensor is activated.

...for Oval now were running the really low Kv motors, for the most part nothing hotter than a NOVAK 10.5 which is rated at 4200-4300Kv, and we're running 17.5's and 21.5's, which are 2,200 and 1,800 Kv rated. (NOTE: Kv = unloaded RPM per volts input.)

Depending on what type of racing you'd be doing, there are some people who have had problems with the Non-Sensored motors sometimes not wanting to launch off the line, or actually go in reverse from a standing start. This doesn't seem to be an issue with sensor based B/L systems. I'm also hearing this is less of a problem with the HOTTER/Higher RPM sensorless systems as well. ie: 3.5, 4.5, etc....

I've personally had great luck with both Novak and LRP systems (GTB and SPHERE COMP) and I've heard some good things about the Traxxas system too, but haven't seen them in action.

The MAMBA systems I've seen run, ran really well and were VERY fast....but ALL of them I've seen had the launch issue under a hard standing start situation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by duckman996
Gear Lower????

Don't you mean gear higher... BL motors require a larger pinion for a much larger roll-out then a typical 19T?

Depending on the BL motor you are getting, you will be gearing at least 5 teeth higher then a typical 19t motor.
....and I agree, we gear the B/L's MUCH taller than I've ever geared a Brushed motor... If a 10.5 motor is rated for 4200Kv (or unloaded RPM) on a 6 cell system, you'll probably only see around 23,000 - 24,500 RPM loaded. Maybe LESS.
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2017 the focus will be on the Encino Velodrome (and dirt oval racing)
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