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Old 12-16-2007, 05:50 PM   #121
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I watched a movie about De Beers that had less politics than the current NiMH climate.

I don't care what people run. I just hope for the option of using LiPo in big races sometime soon. I don't feel right giving the NiMH companies more blood money.
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Old 12-16-2007, 06:25 PM   #122
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Originally Posted by syndr0me View Post
I watched a movie about De Beers that had less politics than the current NiMH climate.

I don't care what people run. I just hope for the option of using LiPo in big races sometime soon. I don't feel right giving the NiMH companies more blood money.
That covers all the club racers.
I wonder if they were to open up a 14.4 in stock would the Sub-c users switch.?
It would be faster for sure. Maybe thats what it will take to convert the industry. Not that I think it needs to be converted.

Am I correct that more and more Mod racers are converting to lipo. I hear so many mixed stories.
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Old 12-16-2007, 06:44 PM   #123
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have any one noticed that non of the pros,factory sponsored or company sponsored racers will input thier opinion and what they think,when it come to lypo or brushless,with all this discussion.why is that?
.....can you say FREE batteries.................
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Old 12-16-2007, 06:54 PM   #124
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I think its funny that you can run a NIMH, recharge it without discharging for each qualifier and your main, go out and have a great time racing with your freinds - just like a lipo battery (I know, because I do that). But you come on the internet, and many people tell you about all the maintaince you have to do to a NIMH.

The NIMH racers are going to run lipo when they are legal, and they are going to keep up with their high battery maintaince, and they are going still beat the guys that are not putting much effort into their lipo batteries. And all that you will have gained is making the price of the standard battery twice as much.

I remember when brushless first started out, everybody said you would only need one motor from now on - that was three generations of Novak brushless motors ago (how many people are still running that same 5800 motor now?). I also remember when Lipo was first catching on, they said you would only need that one battery and one charger - that was a couple lipo battery generations ago, oh and now you need balancer, and as Danny at SMC points out, you'll probably want a 35 amp discharger in the future as well. Does anybody still use those dangerous, flammable first generation lipo's still?

I just wish the guys pushing lipo would stop blowing smoke up everybody butts and lying about both how bad they think NiMh batteries are and how good they think lipo are. You guys really don't know. They say that lipo are less maintaince, but balancing lipo during charging isn't much different than balancing nimh during discharging. You think Lipo is going to level the playing field because you have no clue or ambition (or funds) to go beyond whats recommended to gain an edge over your competition - but there are guys out there like Danny from SMC that will.

You guys are no different then the guys pushing for 2000 mah Sanyo NICD's, or the guys pushing the 3000 mah Panasonic NIMH, the 3300 NIMH or any of the batteries before Lipo. They all claimed the battery wars were going to be over with newer technology - they were wrong, just like the lipo pushers are now. Lipo will just be another battery, thats it. They are not a solution to anything.
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Old 12-16-2007, 07:11 PM   #125
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.

But 1 thing has changed, when LIPO first came out, the big furor was that LIPO was faster, since this has proven to be false, nimh advocates try to find anything else to hamstring lipo and give nimh the advantage, which is where the weight issue comes in. Ask yourself this, does making the car heavier by 7 ounces have any useful purpose other than to conform to the roar weight limits? Does anyone really think that nimh is the future? Then why are people fighting so hard to hold onto it?

I never said I want to have all of the advantages. I just said that trying to add 7 ounces to a car that is already balanced is silly.
Some say just let us run Lipo.....well we do that at the track where I race, we do add weight but it is no where near the 7 oz. you keep talking about. All we add is the weight difference between Lipo and NiMh. You added weight yourself that you believe is required. When we all ran NiMh we didn't add 3 or 4 ounces to balance the car, neither do the "Factory Drivers" that have won many major races. So far I don't see a problem running Lipo against NiMh (at the same weight). I do believe the NiMh is faster but I can live with it for the convenience of Lipo, for now.
So as far as battery's are concerned run whatever makes you happy, at the NiMh weight! You are not going to make everybody switch so let's run the same weight for the good of the sport.

And most of us run BL, I don't think there is any argument that BL is easier and ultimately cheaper. There is a problem with getting the performance closer between "Stock" classes, we thought the 13.5 was the same as stock but it turns out that isn't the case. Now when a guy shows up and has a 27t he has to race against a bunch of 13.5's, that isn't fare and doesn't help bring in new people. In 19t it appears the brushed 19t may be faster than a 10.5 so that isn't a problem.

I guess what I am saying is "What is the problem"! Or are a lot of people stuck in the house because of the snow (like me) and have time to debate.
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Old 12-16-2007, 07:28 PM   #126
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trackpower- Actually I honestly don't care which way it goes, I'll run whatever, so your thought of which side I'm on is probably incorrect. I am just trying to think of others as well, fair is fair. Weight limits have been used in just about every type of on-road motor racing regardless of size/class. My understanding is that it is to give a level playing field for everyone to compete.
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Old 12-16-2007, 07:43 PM   #127
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Originally Posted by Scrubb View Post
I think its funny that you can run a NIMH, recharge it without discharging for each qualifier and your main, go out and have a great time racing with your freinds - just like a lipo battery (I know, because I do that). But you come on the internet, and many people tell you about all the maintaince you have to do to a NIMH.

The NIMH racers are going to run lipo when they are legal, and they are going to keep up with their high battery maintaince, and they are going still beat the guys that are not putting much effort into their lipo batteries. And all that you will have gained is making the price of the standard battery twice as much.

I remember when brushless first started out, everybody said you would only need one motor from now on - that was three generations of Novak brushless motors ago (how many people are still running that same 5800 motor now?). I also remember when Lipo was first catching on, they said you would only need that one battery and one charger - that was a couple lipo battery generations ago, oh and now you need balancer, and as Danny at SMC points out, you'll probably want a 35 amp discharger in the future as well. Does anybody still use those dangerous, flammable first generation lipo's still?

I just wish the guys pushing lipo would stop blowing smoke up everybody butts and lying about both how bad they think NiMh batteries are and how good they think lipo are. You guys really don't know. They say that lipo are less maintaince, but balancing lipo during charging isn't much different than balancing nimh during discharging. You think Lipo is going to level the playing field because you have no clue or ambition (or funds) to go beyond whats recommended to gain an edge over your competition - but there are guys out there like Danny from SMC that will.

You guys are no different then the guys pushing for 2000 mah Sanyo NICD's, or the guys pushing the 3000 mah Panasonic NIMH, the 3300 NIMH or any of the batteries before Lipo. They all claimed the battery wars were going to be over with newer technology - they were wrong, just like the lipo pushers are now. Lipo will just be another battery, thats it. They are not a solution to anything.
Wow! You may think everyone is blowing smoke up everyone's a$$ but you sure seem to have a stick up yours about this.

Your argument is strawman after strawman since very few people worth listening to has ever claimed the counter argument. Be happy with your luck with batteries since it seems the majority doesn't seem to possess your voodoo like skills with them.
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Old 12-16-2007, 08:18 PM   #128
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I think I have it figured out now,
the lipo proponents all want us to use public transportation, so we can all be the same and not cause all this damage our cars do to mother earth, cause, you see when we are all the same, there will be peace on earth and no more wars.
We have to eradicate individuality and all pray to father lipo and mother BL.

When they pry my com lathe from my cold dead fingers!

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Old 12-16-2007, 08:33 PM   #129
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Originally Posted by C_O_jones View Post
I think I have it figured out now,
the lipo proponents all want us to use public transportation, so we can all be the same and not cause all this damage our cars do to mother earth, cause, you see when we are all the same, there will be peace on earth and no more wars.
We have to eradicate individuality and all pray to father lipo and mother BL.
:
You are way off... We just want to be able to run LiPo on the track with you... If you like your sub-Cs great stay with them... If I like LiPos so what, we are just trying to race...

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When they pry my com lathe from my cold dead fingers!
Any you say I'm one side because I want to be able to run either Sub-C or Lipo at the same time... and as you know in stock Lipos are a dis-advantaged.... so why are so bothered by LiPos?
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Old 12-16-2007, 08:45 PM   #130
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Gag !
You Nk-Ml guys ???


Its over !!!

Deal with it ......
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Old 12-16-2007, 08:45 PM   #131
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BillJacobs- You said: "This is why those of us who use lipo want everyone else to run it, not because we care what others run, but so that the rules will be changed and we can run lighter cars." -you said it, not me.

I personally run BL so I'm not against it, no need for info on the joys of BL, and yeah, we already knew that BL was going to be faster and more efficient as the technology has been around for some time. However, some of your logic points about why people may not be racing BL have some serious presuppositions. BTW, I said: "Some industry insiders (the business side of things) have already said that our switch to BL seems to be correlated with a loss in racing numbers."

I am saying that we need to have an industry vision and phase in plan to keep upcoming technological developments in check so that they don't destabilize the industry and turn racers away. I am not saying that we should not embrace technology and utilize it.
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Old 12-16-2007, 08:46 PM   #132
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Originally Posted by syndr0me View Post
I watched a movie about De Beers that had less politics than the current NiMH climate.

I don't care what people run. I just hope for the option of using LiPo in big races sometime soon. I don't feel right giving the NiMH companies more blood money.
syndrome u are my hero,thx
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Old 12-16-2007, 08:50 PM   #133
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Perhaps ROAR or IFMAR will draw a line in the sand and say by the date xx/xx/xxxx lipos will be allowed. In the meantime, special mod classes will begin to permit lipo. Kind of like the upcoming HDTV standard. Not everyone has bought a HDTV yet, but by year 2009, everything will be broadcast in HDTV...
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Old 12-16-2007, 08:55 PM   #134
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Default my sad history with nimh

I have never had much luck with nimh. It probably has to do with the fact that I don't like babysitting batteries and I don't dead short them because the cell matchers said I shouldn't. I follow the instructions (discharge to .9v, charge at 5 amps, etc.)

I have used LIPO's for a year and have never had a single issue. I just charge them, run them and discharge them, many times 4 or 5 times a race/practice day. The first LIPO batteries specifically for r/c car use and marketed to us was the orion 4800. I know several people that have the original 4800 that are 3 years old and they still work great, without any maintenance or upkeep. They were never balanced or anything else, simply charged up and ran.

People should stop comparing nimh to LIPO in everything except crash damage (nimh have a steel can,) peak voltage (nimh win) and weight. Everything else is in LIPO's advantage.

When asking how many people run the original novak 5800, another question is how many people still run the trinity pk or monster stock motors? People usually bought 1 5800 and 2-3 stock motors, so in the end they were about the same price.

Pointing out a possible correlation about brushless and the decline in racer turnout is the same as saying maybe racer turnout is down because 2007 has as odd last digit. You can say anything and correlate anything, but the motives of the person making a statement should always be taken into account.

One more thing, BL and LIPO have done more to bring in new racers and gotten back retired racers, than they have ever turned away. Touring car racing is on the decline precisely because of the costs involved, and lipo and brushless reduce those costs tremendously.

Last edited by billjacobs; 12-16-2007 at 09:10 PM.
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Old 12-16-2007, 09:13 PM   #135
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You are way off... We just want to be able to run LiPo on the track with you... If you like your sub-Cs great stay with them... If I like LiPos so what, we are just trying to race...



Any you say I'm one side because I want to be able to run either Sub-C or Lipo at the same time... and as you know in stock Lipos are a dis-advantaged.... so why are so bothered by LiPos?
It was meant to be funny, you lipo/Bl guys need to lighten up some!

My 4200's that I bought back in July, finally wore out, and I did use them a LOT!
So while waiting for the new batch to arrive, I picked up a lipo, Orion platinum 4800, not very impressed, used it fri night for a club race and sat out the 3rd qual to get it charged up again. I ran 19t rubber with a checkpoint and could not get the the 3600 back into it in time. I wont buy another one, not when the top of the line lipo cant keep up, power loss was noticeable too.
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