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Old 12-15-2007, 11:42 AM   #76
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The matchers have nothing to do with what the cell manufacturers release. The cell manufatcurers try to stay ahead of there competition.

At the moment the new IB4200 is probably the best cell on the market but guess what I get emails from matchers and racers asking when we will have 4600s. Even though no one has runtime issues they want the newer cells.
well i am waiting on the racers opinion now.i dont wanna start a pole to see how many racers are asking for that.going from 3800 to 4200 to 4600,and when will it stop 6500,7000?
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Old 12-15-2007, 11:46 AM   #77
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Agreed. That's why I think electric racing would benefit from getting rid of classes based on motors and replace them with classes based on skill level. IMO, that's one of the main reasons why nitro offroad has become so popular during the last 10 years.

What's the point of having stock and 19T classes when it's cheaper to run mod?
To add to that. At our track I mentioned that. It would be to the best interest if any motor slower than the track will go not be allowed. If you have a motor slower than the track will go it opens the he out bought me crap.
If that means 13.5, 19t what ever. I run off road gas and these issues don't come up. Its all,,,,,,,,,,,,,well you were the better racer tonight.
Not well if I had the jack i could keep up and quit.
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Old 12-15-2007, 11:48 AM   #78
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No matter how slow you make the motor the new guy will crash. He has to learn trigger control one way or the other. I would rather learn with a grin than a frown from driving a slow motor.
Thats just me.
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Old 12-15-2007, 11:49 AM   #79
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Mod is not the answer on tight little carpet tracks. If you're regularly getting beat in a 13.5 brushless class by another guy with a 13.5, it's not because he out-motored you. Some of you guys need to quit crying and practice.
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Old 12-15-2007, 11:53 AM   #80
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I sure hope the improvements of lipo don't end up like the improvement we are seeing with Sub-c's.
The cells are weaker in longevity. We don't all pamper our cells like a pro.
We need common club racer cells/Lipos.
this is good news from smc regarding hard case lipo,and i second that for X
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i please asked u to start a new thread about motors and new comers,its a good topic,lets keep this one about batteries
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Old 12-15-2007, 12:51 PM   #81
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Mod is not the answer on tight little carpet tracks. If you're regularly getting beat in a 13.5 brushless class by another guy with a 13.5, it's not because he out-motored you. Some of you guys need to quit crying and practice.
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Old 12-15-2007, 01:03 PM   #82
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Mod is not the answer on tight little carpet tracks. If you're regularly getting beat in a 13.5 brushless class by another guy with a 13.5, it's not because he out-motored you. Some of you guys need to quit crying and practice.
Running mod motors on tight little carpet tracks is not the answer, but I still think open classes based on skill level is the right way to go. For example:

At my local onroad track, the best drivers don't use anything faster than a 5.5. Does that mean noobs should go out and buy 5.5's? No, they can actually turn faster laps with milder motors. At your track, what's wrong with letting someone use a 10.5 with LiPos and let them trim down the speed just enough so they can lay down as much power as the track can handle? It's much cheaper to slow down a faster set-up than it is to get that last little bit of power out of a slower set-up.
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Old 12-15-2007, 01:28 PM   #83
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*************Some of you guys need to quit crying and practice.******************
Lipo and brushless will not stop people who can setup a car and devote practice time from beating you. Also, they will figure out how to make the lipos and brushless motors faster while they are practicing and setting their stuff up.

Yes, some guys do have big motor. But you need CORNERSPEED to be fast.
That also tends to look like a faster motor since their car is operating more efficiently than most.
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Old 12-15-2007, 01:55 PM   #84
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this is good news from smc regarding hard case lipo,and i second that for X
UN4RACING
i please asked u to start a new thread about motors and new comers,its a good topic,lets keep this one about batteries
Sorry.
But maybe the answer lies in this very debate. Why are some guys running Sub-c????????
Simple they think they have an edge. And they can afford an edge.
If they could not afford it they would be running lipo with the other lipo guys.
I think the Q is why would we not want Sub-c? Who cares except maybe some one who thinks they they have an edge and feeling its un fair.
If you got it can afford Sub-c and like the regiment of running them so be it.

Skill level dosent' start till you throw in a mod motor.
Sorry couldn't resist.

Go fast and try not to crash.
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Old 12-15-2007, 07:06 PM   #85
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Once Lipos takeover we will cycle every pack and grade them so the ones with better voltage and lower IR will cost more as some racers will be willing to spend more for .03 in average voltage and .4 lower in IR.

****We will also push our manufacturer *****to come up with materials that make better power so we can stay ahead of the competition.

well thre u go u said it ur self.
racers will adapt to whatever battery at hand,3800 IB where good enough for 5 min in all classes,so who asked for 4200?racers?why?to spend more money?
to wait 45 min for the battery to charge instead of 35?
in stock and 19 i always have a min or 2 after 5 min race to spare.so if races stay at 5 min why ask for 4200 and 4600.
what u gonna tell me?they want more speed?no we dont frakin want more speed that comes from extra 0.1 voltage or extra 400 mah.
if racers who race stock wants more speed,they can go to 19 turn,if its not fast enough go to mod.
we did not ask for that,battery matching companies are,u said it**we push our manufacturer**
u kept pushing for more capacity and voltage till they started to blow up,made a good IB cells bad,what a shame.
its a battery war between manfacturers or matchers,and us racers are paying for that.
and guess what the organization that suppose to protect and help us aka *roar* are in on it.3800 approved,4200 approved,4600 approved,atomic bombs approved.
someone responsible put a lid on this please.
any one who thinks i am wrong please correct me,or express ur opinion,u will be welcomed.
i am waiting on an input from the fellow racers .thx
No company manufactures a product that there is no demand for. The demand is there for higher capacity cell for whatever reason. If we said to the battery companies "no thank you we don't need the 4600 cells we are very satisfied with the 4200s" do you think they would continue to supply them? Bad business to supply a product no one wants.

One reason I heard for higher capacity for Stock and 19T is the the voltage curve is flatter over a longer period of time with a higher capacity cell. A 360sec cell is good enough for stock but it does not maintain 7.2 volts over the entire 360sec. If it starts to decay drastically before 5 min. you got problems. A higher capacity will offer a higher average voltage over a longer period of time. I would think though that Mod and 4cell racing would benefit the most from higher capacities.
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Old 12-15-2007, 07:29 PM   #86
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This kind of comment has been made quite often here on rctech despite the fact that many of us mod guys, who have already switched over to BL + LiPo, know that it's not based in reality. Sure, there will always be stock and 19T guys who would rather race their wallets than step up and race with the big boys, but that doesn't mean everyone in the hobby behaves this way. Heck, the best driver at my local track still uses brushed motors, old NIMH batteries, and he smokes everyone because he has the best throttle control. The only difference is that we BL + LiPo guys aren't going out and spending big money on NIMH and brushed stuff in order to keep up with him. We have all the power we need on tap and now just need to improve our driving. No matter how many times the naysayers make comments like the one above, the new technology has made racing much more enjoyable and inexpensive for me. Some of us actually like racing a lot more than tinkering with brushed motors and cycling NIMH batteries in the pits...
Not a naysayer. What I said was that racing and competiton breeds inventiveness. Brushless motors and Lipo batteries in R/C car applications is relatively new. It will evolve. And as brushless motors and Lipos take over there WILL be companies who will invent ways to gain an advantage over the guy next to you. And racers will buy whatever it is to gain that advantage. It is the nature of racing and competition and most importantly human nature.
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Old 12-15-2007, 07:39 PM   #87
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Why does everyone have to come up with all these conspiracy type theories for this question
The answer has been posted... we run sub C cells because thats all that is allowed at the IIC, Snowbirds, the Gate Holloween race, the Indoor Champs the ROAR onraod nats etc. of course thats what we run.
Maybe the question should be why do clubs/small races who dont follow the IFMAR, ROAR rules still run sub C cells

Last edited by ottoman; 12-15-2007 at 08:16 PM.
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Old 12-15-2007, 08:37 PM   #88
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Battery Matching was not created by the racers, it was the result of poor quality control in the production of the batteries. If every NiMH came off the assembly line with SimgaSix standards than there would be no need to match batteries. Most of the batteries vary by upwards of 10% in any value: capacity, IR, Avg Voltage.

Right now the production of LiPO's, Li-Ion batteries seem to have less variance between cells. Yes they need to be matched to have better resluts, but does every LiPO pack need to be matched? NO! Lipo packs have something NiMH packs do not, EQ circuts!

Maybe my 4-cell pack needs to have a EQ port so I can keep cells from ever seeing voltages above 1.5V, ever being more than .1% off in voltage during charging, ever dipping below .90V per cell when connected to a bulb discharger. I mentioned it before, but I feel using batteries of better quality not capacity would do more for this hobby that batteries that can not live longer than a week.

I still feel LiFe based batteries are a better solution and shoud be looked at. I don't like beating a horse to death, but untill the blinders come off and most of every one can see though the mess we all come to accept as racing nothing will get better.
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Old 12-15-2007, 08:45 PM   #89
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Maybe the question should be why do clubs/small races who dont follow the IFMAR, ROAR rules still run sub C cells
Simple.... Survival.... And thank god they do not follow the IFMAR and ROAR rules.... Most people that club race are not looking to make the trip to the bigger events... therefore, they are looking for a fun weekend race....
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Old 12-15-2007, 08:49 PM   #90
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Why does everyone have to come up with all these conspiracy type theories for this question
The answer has been posted... we run sub C cells because thats all that is allowed at the IIC, Snowbirds, the Gate Holloween race, the Indoor Champs the ROAR onraod nats etc.
I completely agree with you... Once these events allow LiPo, then it will be interesting....
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