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Old 12-15-2007, 11:09 AM   #61
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Do you talk and work with Lipo manufacturers ? If you do then you should know that Lipos can be improved just like sub-c cells have improved over time.

The perfect is example is that our 5000 pack is the only true 22C pack on the market that actually fits in RC cars. Our pack has the highest average voltage and lowest IR. If Lipos would all be the same why is there a difference between different manufacturers packs. Were currently working on a hardcase and we will offer 3 new packs when the case is done.
I sure hope the improvements of lipo don't end up like the improvement we are seeing with Sub-c's.
The cells are weaker in longevity. We don't all pamper our cells like a pro.
We need common club racer cells/Lipos.
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Old 12-15-2007, 11:10 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by UN4RACING
The slower we make racing the more miserable it is for new comers.
They will have to try harder to go faster.
Its reverse psychology.
That is why new people to racing need their own specific class. So they don't have to compete with the people who can make a slow motor fast. I don't know about you but the faster a motor is in a new persons car means the quicker I get off the track.
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Old 12-15-2007, 11:11 AM   #63
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Please enlighten us to this. While I don't doubt what you say, does it effect the longevity of the pack. In helicopters we abide by an 80% rule, that is we don't discharge our packs below 80% of the capacity otherwise the longevity is compromised. To cycle a pack I am assuming you take it to its lowest, safest voltage and you would probably then be below that 80% rule. But how are you discharging them, pulse, continuous, what is the cutoff you use? As a racer I do like to get the most from my packs without compromising safety.
It seems like Lipos offer more memory effect than sub-c cells.

So basically we have seen that cycling discharging a 2 cell pack down to 6 volts at 35 amps will keep the voltage as high as possible and the IR low.

I'm not sure about how it will affect the life expectancy of the packs but I can tell where speed is important this will be a must do as the difference is pretty significant.

It's a shame that some think that Lipos will be the end of all battery issues for RC. I do believe that Lipos are great for certain types of racing and in fact this is what I use in my Offroad cars.

When I give my point of views and findings you have guys like Wild Cherry that think I only care about my matching business and that I'm against Lipos but the fact it that I have been testing Lipos for awhile and I know that this will not be the perfect solution some want it to be.
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Old 12-15-2007, 11:13 AM   #64
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That is why new people to racing need their own specific class. So they don't have to compete with the people who can make a slow motor fast. I don't know about you but the faster a motor is in a new persons car means the quicker I get off the track.
Theres merit to that...
They have there class......but its who is in it that counts the most..
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Old 12-15-2007, 11:17 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by Danny/SMC
I'm not sure about how it will affect the life expectancy of the packs but I can tell where speed is important this will be a must do as the difference is pretty significant.
How long does this take to notice with the lipo, how many cycles on the track? And do you do a full cycle or just discharge after use?

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Originally Posted by UN4RACING
Theres merit to that...
They have there class......but its who is in it that counts the most..
I take it to mean that stock is for newcomers, or are you saying that people are sandbagging in the sportsman or novice class? But if stock is for newcomers, what about those of us who race on small tracks where 19t or mod chews our tires up in half the time?
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Old 12-15-2007, 11:25 AM   #66
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Danny , you are the "best of the best" when it comes to judging the battery matcher`s...

Your business practices are above all & your opinions receive my full attention....


sorry......
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Old 12-15-2007, 11:30 AM   #67
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This happens once you run your packs on the track in low amp draw situation like stock and 19t. The more you run them without cycling them at high discahrge rates the more it will drop. If your the type of racer who believes that .02-.04 in voltage makes a difference then you will need to discharge them every few runs or so.

Another thing that we noticed is that by fully discharging your pack it will perform better.

For all of those who doubt what I'm saying and udnerstand battery cycling numbers here are actual numbers that someone provided me. This guy uses the Orion 3200 pack.

The pack was used in stock oval racing for one raceday which includes practicing and racing.

Cycling was done on a T35 Lipo GFX using a 35 amp discharge down to 6 volts.

Four cycles were done in the same day and basically as soon as one cycle finishes they other one starts.

runtime - voltage - IR
Cycle 1: 314 - 6.76 - 17.1
Cycle 2: 322 - 6.95 - 12.3
Cycle 3: 326 - 7.01 - 11.2
Cycle 4: 328 - 7.03 - 10.8


As you can see there is a big difference in average voltage between cycle 1 to cycle 3.
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Old 12-15-2007, 11:32 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by Wild Cherry View Post
Danny , you are the "best of the best" when it comes to judging the battery matcher`s...

Your business practices are above all & your opinions receive my full attention....


sorry......
Thanks that makes me feel good.
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Old 12-15-2007, 11:32 AM   #69
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Once Lipos takeover we will cycle every pack and grade them so the ones with better voltage and lower IR will cost more as some racers will be willing to spend more for .03 in average voltage and .4 lower in IR.

****We will also push our manufacturer *****to come up with materials that make better power so we can stay ahead of the competition.[/QUOTE]

well thre u go u said it ur self.
racers will adapt to whatever battery at hand,3800 IB where good enough for 5 min in all classes,so who asked for 4200?racers?why?to spend more money?
to wait 45 min for the battery to charge instead of 35?
in stock and 19 i always have a min or 2 after 5 min race to spare.so if races stay at 5 min why ask for 4200 and 4600.
what u gonna tell me?they want more speed?no we dont frakin want more speed that comes from extra 0.1 voltage or extra 400 mah.
if racers who race stock wants more speed,they can go to 19 turn,if its not fast enough go to mod.
we did not ask for that,battery matching companies are,u said it**we push our manufacturer**
u kept pushing for more capacity and voltage till they started to blow up,made a good IB cells bad,what a shame.
its a battery war between manfacturers or matchers,and us racers are paying for that.
and guess what the organization that suppose to protect and help us aka *roar* are in on it.3800 approved,4200 approved,4600 approved,atomic bombs approved.
someone responsible put a lid on this please.
any one who thinks i am wrong please correct me,or express ur opinion,u will be welcomed.
i am waiting on an input from the fellow racers .thx
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Old 12-15-2007, 11:32 AM   #70
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Last edited by trackpower; 12-15-2007 at 11:34 AM. Reason: double post
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Old 12-15-2007, 11:36 AM   #71
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The matchers have nothing to do with what the cell manufacturers release. The cell manufatcurers try to stay ahead of there competition.

At the moment the new IB4200 is probably the best cell on the market but guess what I get emails from matchers and racers asking when we will have 4600s. Even though no one has runtime issues they want the newer cells.
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Old 12-15-2007, 11:37 AM   #72
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That is why new people to racing need their own specific class. So they don't have to compete with the people who can make a slow motor fast. I don't know about you but the faster a motor is in a new persons car means the quicker I get off the track.
u should start a new thread about that topic,i feel the same,and that what might save this hobby.
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Old 12-15-2007, 11:37 AM   #73
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How long does this take to notice with the lipo, how many cycles on the track? And do you do a full cycle or just discharge after use?



I take it to mean that stock is for newcomers, or are you saying that people are sandbagging in the sportsman or novice class? But if stock is for newcomers, what about those of us who race on small tracks where 19t or mod chews our tires up in half the time?
I ask myself where the new racer is racing and how many there are. If they have enough for a class then run what you brung.
If they are just cutting there teeth then give them something to chew on.
Its pain full trying to keep up with a guru. I approach greeting new racers by giving them the track.
If they are thrown in with the fast guys and he wants to leave cause the new guy has no one else to run with who will leave 1st?
If the new guy comes 1st he will stay. It seems to me the fast guy may be in the wrong class.
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Old 12-15-2007, 11:38 AM   #74
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Originally Posted by Danny/SMC
Cycling was done on a T35 Lipo GFX using a 35 amp discharge down to 6 volts.
Would like to do some experimenting for me? Use a spintec batman v2 at 6 cell setting with 1v cutoff per cell. This should cut the lipo off at 6v, however it will probably take two days for a cycle.
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Old 12-15-2007, 11:40 AM   #75
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Originally Posted by UN4RACING View Post
This was the blessing of Brushless lipo.
You could afford to step up, it made the excuse it was to expensive to run mod away.
The ones left behind are trying to win a race they may never even have a shot at.
The ones that stepped up were the ones that are true to racing.
Which is go fast and try not to crash.
I for one, thanks to B/L am done with trying to make slow faster.
Its like trying to make a perfect circle rounder.
I honestly beleive that actions and attitude like this is what will help the growth of sedan racing.
The slower we make racing the more miserable it is for new comers.
They will have to try harder to go faster.
Its reverse psychology.
Agreed. That's why I think electric racing would benefit from getting rid of classes based on motors and replace them with classes based on skill level. IMO, that's one of the main reasons why nitro offroad has become so popular during the last 10 years.

What's the point of having stock and 19T classes when it's cheaper to run mod?
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