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Old 12-15-2007, 12:55 AM   #46
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Its a good thing that batteries are close in voltage now,what worries me this year is the cost,last season i could get 4 cell pack for $37,this season its $47 from the same supplier and its cose of the higher mahs i think.
in 8 years i ve seen more people leaving this hobby then the ones getting in,and its all for the same reason:costs of racing is too high batteries and tires mainly.foam tires this season went down thx to jaco from average $18to$10/pair,thats significant and it will ease up on a lot of racers.in the past 2years 3 big race tracks in the tristate area shutt down,hobbychambers in ct,horsham in pa,and south shore in long island.
thre are simply not enogh people getting in the hobby and a lot are leaving.
as a leader in the battery industry danny u should take steps to lower the cost of cells not to match extra 0.0001 volts out of the cell and charging extra $10 bux for it,common man $65 for 6 cells is way too much especially when they cost in china untreated $10
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Old 12-15-2007, 03:41 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by trackpower View Post
as a leader in the battery industry danny u should take steps to lower the cost of cells not to match extra 0.0001 volts out of the cell and charging extra $10 bux for it,common man $65 for 6 cells is way too much especially when they cost in china untreated $10
Everyone has their favorites but I have never, never gotten a bad pack, a cell failure, sloppy quality control or bad customer service in any way from SMC or the people they supply. I will pay extra for that piece of mind.
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Old 12-15-2007, 05:41 AM   #48
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The reason we are still using sub-c cells is because those are allowed in the rules of organized competitive racing. If your intrested in organized competitive racing, you follow the rules to race.

The rules are to keep things organized, not to make sure you have the best avaliable product. Just be patient, soon, they will be legal, then you will be paying premium for matched, labeled, zapped, custom lipo cells just to be competitive.
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Old 12-15-2007, 09:16 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by trackpower View Post
Its a good thing that batteries are close in voltage now,what worries me this year is the cost,last season i could get 4 cell pack for $37,this season its $47 from the same supplier and its cose of the higher mahs i think.
in 8 years i ve seen more people leaving this hobby then the ones getting in,and its all for the same reason:costs of racing is too high batteries and tires mainly.foam tires this season went down thx to jaco from average $18to$10/pair,thats significant and it will ease up on a lot of racers.in the past 2years 3 big race tracks in the tristate area shutt down,hobbychambers in ct,horsham in pa,and south shore in long island.
thre are simply not enogh people getting in the hobby and a lot are leaving.
as a leader in the battery industry danny u should take steps to lower the cost of cells not to match extra 0.0001 volts out of the cell and charging extra $10 bux for it,common man $65 for 6 cells is way too much especially when they cost in china untreated $10

We do offer a chepaer matched pack it's called our Economy pack and it retails at 75.00 instead of 105.00 for our Race packs. The difference in voltage is very little and this pack is really popular for us. We can't control if racers want to spend and extra 15-20 bucks to get an .003-.005 in average voltage.

As far as pricing goes the current prices of matched packs is not much higher than it was in the past. The cost of cells has gone up but prices have stayed relatively the same.
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Old 12-15-2007, 09:24 AM   #50
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Once Lipos takeover we will cycle every pack and grade them so the ones with better voltage and lower IR will cost more as some racers will be willing to spend more for .03 in average voltage and .4 lower in IR.

We will also push our manufacturer to come up with materials that make better power so we can stay ahead of the competition.
Which is WHY I hope the OVAL Racing Groups that are going to LIPO stand UNITED, and stay with the SINGLE Battery Rule...and not allow this to happen
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Old 12-15-2007, 09:31 AM   #51
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While your at it you should also get the Oval racing groups to have a single chassis rule, single tire rule and etc.
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Old 12-15-2007, 10:30 AM   #52
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Different chassis make racing more interesting because you can tune each one and try to extract the benefits from it through your skill and knowledge.

Different batteries just cause headaches. Nobody tunes batteries or tweaks anything of consequence. You'd have a better case for talking up brushed motors, since tuning them is a skill. The battery variable should be eliminated.
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Old 12-15-2007, 10:41 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by Impulse_racer View Post
There will be manufaturing techniques, equipment, and procedures invented to put us into the same type of situation we are in now with bushed motors and sub-C cells. We the racers will eventually demand it.
This kind of comment has been made quite often here on rctech despite the fact that many of us mod guys, who have already switched over to BL + LiPo, know that it's not based in reality. Sure, there will always be stock and 19T guys who would rather race their wallets than step up and race with the big boys, but that doesn't mean everyone in the hobby behaves this way. Heck, the best driver at my local track still uses brushed motors, old NIMH batteries, and he smokes everyone because he has the best throttle control. The only difference is that we BL + LiPo guys aren't going out and spending big money on NIMH and brushed stuff in order to keep up with him. We have all the power we need on tap and now just need to improve our driving. No matter how many times the naysayers make comments like the one above, the new technology has made racing much more enjoyable and inexpensive for me. Some of us actually like racing a lot more than tinkering with brushed motors and cycling NIMH batteries in the pits...
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Old 12-15-2007, 10:42 AM   #54
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Actually racers who take care of there packs and udnerstand how to treat them will have better running packs. This is true for sub-c and Lipos.

So even if you limit a class to one type of battery there will still be some that will figure things out. Bottom line the people who want things to be limited are the ones not winning races and they think there getting beat by batteries and motors but the bottom line is that driving skills and chassis setup is the most important factors in RC racing.
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Old 12-15-2007, 10:48 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by Danny/SMC View Post
Actually racers who take care of there packs and udnerstand how to treat them will have better running packs. This is true for sub-c and Lipos.

So even if you limit a class to one type of battery there will still be some that will figure things out. Bottom line the people who want things to be limited are the ones not winning races and they think there getting beat by batteries and motors but the bottom line is that driving skills and chassis setup is the most important factors in RC racing.
I can not help but to think of Mr. Blacks signature here.
What next? We all have to run the same radio.?
The more you speck any portion seems to make the Hobby/Sport just that much more miserable if you ask me.'

I know! I know! No one asked.
If you speck a battery or any part of that in question you have to speck the whole kit and caboodle.
If its not the battery it will be the servos and so on.
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Old 12-15-2007, 10:48 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by Leodis View Post
This kind of comment has been made quite often here on rctech despite the fact that many of us mod guys, who have already switched over to BL + LiPo, know that it's not based in reality. Sure, there will always be stock and 19T guys who would rather race their wallets than step up and race with the big boys, but that doesn't mean everyone in the hobby behaves this way. Heck, the best driver at my local track still uses brushed motors, old NIMH batteries, and he smokes everyone because he has the best throttle control. The only difference is that we BL + LiPo guys aren't going out and spending big money on NIMH and brushed stuff in order to keep up with him. We have all the power we need on tap and now just need to improve our driving. No matter how many times the naysayers make comments like the one above, the new technology has made racing much more enjoyable and inexpensive for me. Some of us actually like racing a lot more than tinkering with brushed motors and cycling NIMH batteries in the pits...

Yes in mod it makes sense as most racers don't have the skills to handle those speeds and drive the perfect line. I have always said that Lipos are good for bashers or racing where speed is not the solution. The problem will come when Lipos are used in applications where power is important like stock and 19t. Then we will see a push for more powerful Lipos and racers trying anything to make them faster. I already have test results that show that you need to keep cycling your Lipos at high discharge rates to keep them at there maximum performance.
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Old 12-15-2007, 10:54 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by Danny/SMC View Post
Don't worry for us as our Lipo packs already have higher average voltage and lower IR than other packs currently out on the market.

Once Lipos takeover we will cycle every pack and grade them so the ones with better voltage and lower IR will cost more as some racers will be willing to spend more for .03 in average voltage and .4 lower in IR.

We will also push our manufacturer to come up with materials that make better power so we can stay ahead of the competition.
The only way you could offer racer`s superior cell`s is though your obsolete Nk-Ml matching & zaping techology...


As you said , Li-Po comes matched from the factory, you can`t improve their performance ....

cept by suggestion....


Too bad .....
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Old 12-15-2007, 11:00 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by Danny/SMC
I already have test results that show that you need to keep cycling your Lipos at high discharge rates to keep them at there maximum performance.
Please enlighten us to this. While I don't doubt what you say, does it effect the longevity of the pack. In helicopters we abide by an 80% rule, that is we don't discharge our packs below 80% of the capacity otherwise the longevity is compromised. To cycle a pack I am assuming you take it to its lowest, safest voltage and you would probably then be below that 80% rule. But how are you discharging them, pulse, continuous, what is the cutoff you use? As a racer I do like to get the most from my packs without compromising safety.
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Old 12-15-2007, 11:02 AM   #59
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Do you talk and work with Lipo manufacturers ? If you do then you should know that Lipos can be improved just like sub-c cells have improved over time.

The perfect is example is that our 5000 pack is the only true 22C pack on the market that actually fits in RC cars. Our pack has the highest average voltage and lowest IR. If Lipos would all be the same why is there a difference between different manufacturers packs. Were currently working on a hardcase and we will offer 3 new packs when the case is done.
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Old 12-15-2007, 11:05 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by Leodis View Post
This kind of comment has been made quite often here on rctech despite the fact that many of us mod guys, who have already switched over to BL + LiPo, know that it's not based in reality. Sure, there will always be stock and 19T guys who would rather race their wallets than step up and race with the big boys, but that doesn't mean everyone in the hobby behaves this way. Heck, the best driver at my local track still uses brushed motors, old NIMH batteries, and he smokes everyone because he has the best throttle control. The only difference is that we BL + LiPo guys aren't going out and spending big money on NIMH and brushed stuff in order to keep up with him. We have all the power we need on tap and now just need to improve our driving. No matter how many times the naysayers make comments like the one above, the new technology has made racing much more enjoyable and inexpensive for me. Some of us actually like racing a lot more than tinkering with brushed motors and cycling NIMH batteries in the pits...
This was the blessing of Brushless lipo.
You could afford to step up, it made the excuse it was to expensive to run mod away.
The ones left behind are trying to win a race they may never even have a shot at.
The ones that stepped up were the ones that are true to racing.
Which is go fast and try not to crash.
I for one, thanks to B/L am done with trying to make slow faster.
Its like trying to make a perfect circle rounder.
I honestly beleive that actions and attitude like this is what will help the growth of sedan racing.
The slower we make racing the more miserable it is for new comers.
They will have to try harder to go faster.
Its reverse psychology.
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