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Old 12-14-2007, 11:28 PM   #31
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I truly hope that all of you Lipo and brushless motor advocates are not so naive as to believe that once the majority of people are running lipo and brushless that the motor and battery wars won't start up again. I know everyone reading this knows there is someone in their basement right now experimenting with a lipo pack to get that little "extra" out of it. People are already experimenting with different com sizes turned down on a metal lathe and laptops to tweak the brushless motors. The only difference between sub-C/Lipo and brush/brushless will be the technology used to tune/tweak them.
Heat the packs to 120F before racing. Advantage: True. Safe: True.
Charge packs beyond 4.2v/cell. Advantage: True. Safe: FALSE!

Matching? Ask the matching company SMC if their LiPo packs are matched. They say the cells are close enough they don't need it.

Scary cheap cells with high voltage for two runs? BAN! Spec batteries are the way to go. Tamiya got it right with the TCS rules this year.

Is there anything else? Probably. The hope with LiPo isn't that it's not evil, just that it's less evil. Baby steps, ya dig?

Last edited by syndr0me; 12-14-2007 at 11:38 PM.
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Old 12-14-2007, 11:30 PM   #32
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The problem w/ sub c cells is that you have to push them to their absolute max to get the best performance out of them. This is not true for lipos. I do not want to race in an inviroment where a guy can spend $500 a week on batteries & actually gain an edge because of it. Instead I want to race in an enviroment where your top of the line $200 lipo pack can be set up to perform at the max and then be re used 500+ times, not a 10 amp charge for 3 cycles and then trash them.

What kind of racing have you used your Lipos in ?

When Lipos are used in low amp draw situation such as stock and 19t they average voltage drops and the IR increases. If you cycle your Lipos at 35amps or possibly higher the voltage and IR will comeback to normal.

So this means when you race in classes where voltage is important then you will need to cycle your packs to keep them at there maximum performance.
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Old 12-14-2007, 11:34 PM   #33
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Actually the lipo cells in our 2S2P packs are matched by the manufacturer.
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Old 12-14-2007, 11:38 PM   #34
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Actually the lipo cells in our 2S2P packs are matched by the manufacturer.
That's a nice perk. Too bad the NiMH guys don't do that for you guys. :-)
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Old 12-14-2007, 11:41 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by Impulse_racer View Post
I truly hope that all of you Lipo and brushless motor advocates are not so naive as to believe that once the majority of people are running lipo and brushless that the motor and battery wars won't start up again. I know everyone reading this knows there is someone in their basement right now experimenting with a lipo pack to get that little "extra" out of it. People are already experimenting with different com sizes turned down on a metal lathe and laptops to tweak the brushless motors. The only difference between sub-C/Lipo and brush/brushless will be the technology used to tune/tweak them.
man so scared to say that u might be right,i just hope they put lid on things better then nowdays
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Old 12-14-2007, 11:45 PM   #36
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Actually the lipo cells in our 2S2P packs are matched by the manufacturer.
but wouldent u make more money if u buy them unmatched and then u match them ur self,the same way u doing with the nimh batteries.so u can find somthing to do after lipo takes over,lol
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Old 12-14-2007, 11:54 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by syndr0me View Post
Heat the packs to 120F before racing. Advantage: True. Safe: True.
Charge packs beyond 4.2v/cell. Advantage: True. Safe: FALSE!

Matching? Ask the matching company SMC if their 2 cell LiPo packs are matched. They say the cells are close enough they don't need it.

Scary cheap cells with high voltage for two runs? BAN! Spec batteries are the way to go. Tamiya got it right with the TCS rules this year.

Is there anything else? Probably. The hope with LiPo isn't that it's not evil, just that it's less evil. Baby steps, ya dig?
What I am saying is that racing is competition. NO ONE is going to be satisfied with the fact that the guy next to them has the same spec brushless motor and lipo battery for long. "How can I get an edge" will start to creep into the minds of every racer in time. It is the nature of racing and competitition. The lipo/brushless combo looks like a level playing field...NOW. But how many of us truly want a "level" playing field. We created the industry for battery matchers and motor tuners because we want to tilt that level playing field in our favor. We want to have a little extra than the guy next to us. There will be manufaturing techniques, equipment, and procedures invented to put us into the same type of situation we are in now with bushed motors and sub-C cells. We the racers will eventually demand it.
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Old 12-15-2007, 12:03 AM   #38
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but wouldent u make more money if u buy them unmatched and then u match them ur self,the same way u doing with the nimh batteries.so u can find somthing to do after lipo takes over,lol
Don't worry for us as our Lipo packs already have higher average voltage and lower IR than other packs currently out on the market.

Once Lipos takeover we will cycle every pack and grade them so the ones with better voltage and lower IR will cost more as some racers will be willing to spend more for .03 in average voltage and .4 lower in IR.

We will also push our manufacturer to come up with materials that make better power so we can stay ahead of the competition.
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Old 12-15-2007, 12:04 AM   #39
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What I am saying is that racing is competition. NO ONE is going to be satisfied with the fact that the guy next to them has the same spec brushless motor and lipo battery for long. "How can I get an edge" will start to creep into the minds of every racer in time. It is the nature of racing and competitition. The lipo/brushless combo looks like a level playing field...NOW. But how many of us truly want a "level" playing field. We created the industry for battery matchers and motor tuners because we want to tilt that level playing field in our favor. We want to have a little extra than the guy next to us. There will be manufaturing techniques, equipment, and procedures invented to put us into the same type of situation we are in now with bushed motors and sub-C cells. We the racers will eventually demand it.
man u are depressing me cose i know its right,stop posting
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Old 12-15-2007, 12:06 AM   #40
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Don't worry for us as our Lipo packs already have higher average voltage and lower IR than other packs currently out on the market.

Once Lipos takeover we will cycle every pack and grade them so the ones with better voltage and lower IR will cost more as some racers will be willing to spend more for .03 in average voltage and .4 lower in IR.

We will also push our manufacturer to come up with materials that make better power so we can stay ahead of the competition.
you too are depressing me as well,i am off to fly helis now
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Old 12-15-2007, 12:11 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by Danny/SMC View Post
Don't worry for us as our Lipo packs already have higher average voltage and lower IR than other packs currently out on the market.

Once Lipos takeover we will cycle every pack and grade them so the ones with better voltage and lower IR will cost more as some racers will be willing to spend more for .03 in average voltage and .4 lower in IR.

We will also push our manufacturer to come up with materials that make better power so we can stay ahead of the competition.
See what I mean. Let Battery Wars Part II, The Lipo Years begin.

And you know the brushless motor manufacturers are gearing up as well.
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Old 12-15-2007, 12:13 AM   #42
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you too are depressing me as well,i am off to fly helis now
Didn't electric aircraft start this mess?
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Old 12-15-2007, 12:22 AM   #43
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Because some people in high places fear lipo.
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Old 12-15-2007, 12:25 AM   #44
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Didn't electric aircraft start this mess?
not really.
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Old 12-15-2007, 12:28 AM   #45
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Part of the fun of racing is trying to go faster than they other guys. This can be accomplished by driving skills and car setup. When you put guys with the same skills and good setups then speed becomes important and this is why there will never be a perfect solution.

I know of some racers who are buying 10 BL rotors to try to find some that are stronger.

I can't deny that the newer generation sub-c cells have been more fragile and unreliable. We do see improvements in the latest cells and if you look at any major race the top 10 times are very close this is due to the newer style cells being very good in voltage. You can typically buy packs in the counter that have the same voltage as what everyone else is using. The reason for this is the newer style cells have a bigger fluctuation in runtime within a case but the voltage is closer. Cells now range from .015 in voltage where as GP3300s or Sanyo 3000 varied by .03 in voltage so there wasn't as many top voltage cells. Now there is an abundance of high voltage cells so everyone can have the same power.
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