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Old 12-11-2007, 09:57 PM   #16
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Honestly, if you have ever been to an event that Scotty Ernst and crew have run, you know what a race should be run like. He puts on a very well organized event and I could not even fathom really as to what more you could do to make it better. If every other promoter would follow his way of doing things I think no one would be unhappy. I have been to all three IIC events and I personally have looked forward to it every year. I plan on being there next year as well.
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Old 12-12-2007, 10:37 AM   #17
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Great question

I just started racing again and have been lucky enough to attend some great sponsored races, Novak, TCS, IIC in Vegas...

One thing I really enjoy is the Scotty's unbelievable talent for announcing the races and remembering everyone's name. He makes you feel like your just as important as the factory guys that are there.

So I would have to say that most people enjoy the promoters and the sponsors taking the time to talk with people, answering questions and being approachable.

2nd, well organized events.

3rd, Factory guys that you can talk to and they don't seemed bothered when you ask them a question.

4th, Fun, Fun, Fun

Then all little things that make it a great event, food, on-site parts support, friends and great racing.

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Old 12-12-2007, 10:51 AM   #18
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Old 12-12-2007, 01:27 PM   #19
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This a great thread! As a owner/opperator I'm finding some of the replys quite interesting and helpfull.

I'd like to throw another element into it. I'm not sure if there should be a seperate thread or not, so I'll just put it out there.

What can be done to get more of the "Average Joes" to attend the Nationals and other "Big Shows"?

It seems that no matter who I talk to on the subject, as these case is always the same. (All pros at the big events) (None of our locals came out). I attended a ROAR National in 06 and out of 120 or so entries there were only 8 people who were non-sponsored "average joes" in the building, non of which were from the local area.

What's the cause of this? How can this be turned around?
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Old 12-12-2007, 02:13 PM   #20
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[quote=mrrcguy;3967237]This a great thread! As a owner/opperator I'm finding some of the replys quite interesting and helpfull.

I'd like to throw another element into it. I'm not sure if there should be a seperate thread or not, so I'll just put it out there.

What can be done to get more of the "Average Joes" to attend the Nationals and other "Big Shows"?

It seems that no matter who I talk to on the subject, as these case is always the same. (All pros at the big events) (None of our locals came out). I attended a ROAR National in 06 and out of 120 or so entries there were only 8 people who were non-sponsored "average joes" in the building, non of which were from the local area.

What's the cause of this? How can this be turned around?[/QUOTE



Here's my idea on this,

After going to the IIC I noticed the same thing, there where only a handfull of nonsponsored drivers. It was a bit intimidating but fun at the same time.
Before the race, I hadn't had much wheel time with the onroad stuff.
Practice came around and it was set up like heat races, so that ment you only got 5 minutes of practice. Then you sit for hours and then another 5 minutes. Well for some of us, we don't run every weekend especially on a track with that much bite. It's hard for average joe's to make changes and try the setup to get it dialed in.
I feel if the practice was setup to let certain classes, stock..., open...run together during let's say 2 hour sessions, it would allow us average joe's to make changes, try the changes and really focus on setting up the cars.
I wondering if other people feel the same way and choose not to race because of this.
Maybe, maybe not.
Another might be the cost involved with the big races, entry fee's, hotel, food, transportation and travel cost.
That adds up for the average Joe and most pro's have an all expense paid ticket to the show.

Just my thoughts
great thread
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Old 12-12-2007, 02:25 PM   #21
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Interesting thread... This would be the ideal setting for me...

1. Huge track/pit spaces. (huge facility for that matter)
2. As much track time as possible.
3. Scotty and his crew running the show.
4. Not necessarily food on site but something close by.
5. Able to leave your stuff at the track overnight, without having to worry about theft.
6. Power availability.
7. Fully stocked on site hobby shop.

Thats about all I got...
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Old 12-12-2007, 02:28 PM   #22
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1. Believe it or not I am influenced by event tee shirts that are included in the entry fee.
2. Reasonably close to my base of operations (home).
3. Not being cramped into a small pit spot.
4. Security being able to leave my stuff there over night and not having to worry about it.
5. Availability of parts on site.
6. The track no poles to look through or around and reasonable size
7. Interesting layout and on that offers some forgiveness if I dork it. (IE flappers)
8. Food on site would be a big plus.
9. No snow or ice
10. Good ventilation. Sometimes after a day or two at a big race the paragon fog gets to me.
11. I want to be able to run brushless motors and LiPo batteries.
12. Good access to hotels and restaurants

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Old 12-12-2007, 02:49 PM   #23
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[QUOTE=Bertetto;3967317]
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrrcguy View Post
This a great thread! As a owner/opperator I'm finding some of the replys quite interesting and helpfull.

I'd like to throw another element into it. I'm not sure if there should be a seperate thread or not, so I'll just put it out there.

What can be done to get more of the "Average Joes" to attend the Nationals and other "Big Shows"?
What's the cause of this? How can this be turned around?
I don't know that it can. A lot of it is the intimidation factor and peoples perceptions. It's kind of humiliating the first time you get it handed to you at a rate that you are unfamiliar with. When you're the top dog at your local club and you hit a big show and are cutting 42 laps and the pro's are knocking down 52-53... That's hard to take for some people.

And I think people's perceptions of "sponsored drivers" and what they do and do not get is largely exaggerated to help those that are getting crushed by the "pro's" to justify the ass-whoppin'.

Sponsored or not makes little to NO difference to the majority of on track performance. Do you really need somebody to give you a $350 car, or $50 worth of tires, or you just can't win? Nah... Here are two examples of why the "pro" drivers are "pro drivers". Cuffs kicked ass and won in touring car stock at Cleveland. He did it with a car he bought himself, FROM US, 14 days before the event... Little or no track time with a new car, and won with it, nothing special, no crazy team stuff.

Here's another one. I'm Dieter's room chillin', Paul Lemieux walks in, and Dieter hands him a 1/12th car that looks like it's been in the trunk of Dieter's car for like 3 years (I wouldn't have run it). Paulie said he wasn't really in the mood for 1/12th, but would try and run it. He ended up second in 1/12th mod between Cyrul and Tosso'. Good thing he had that "team gear"...

A free motor and a free car doesn't make a pro driver. They get the title from us mere mortals by being "pro drivers". Those guys can "wheel". And I don't know that there is any way to take that "they get all the good stuff" and win because of it, attitude out of most of us. I'm gonna add to that, if I personally had Eli Ezrow's motor, I'd have kicked his ASS!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bertetto View Post
Another might be the cost involved with the big races, entry fee's, hotel, food, transportation and travel cost.
That adds up for the average Joe and most pro's have an all expense paid ticket to the show.
You may be on to something with that. Ernie Provetti and I had a long discussion about that very thing. It's expensive to go to the big shows. I think Cleveland cost us about $4200 to send the 3 of us for the 6 days we were there, not including parts. I think likely $1400-$1500 per person for hotel, airfare and entry fees.

Know way around some of that. The RC stuff was the best bargain of the equation.

Last edited by Bob-Stormer; 12-12-2007 at 03:09 PM.
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Old 12-12-2007, 03:01 PM   #24
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Quote:
I attended a ROAR National in 06 and out of 120 or so entries there were only 8 people who were non-sponsored "average joes" in the building, non of which were from the local area.
Let's See - A NATIONAL EVENT , hence a race to crown a NATIONAL CHAMPION is not a race of "average joes", and SHOULD be a race of Champions, Sponsored Drivers and the Elite of the Elite.

However, in my humble but honest opinion NATIONAL EVENTS should also include a "Amatuer National Champion" class as well.

In the Amatuer class NO Sponsors should be allowed - NO Professional Racers should be allowed to enter..and if a racer is close on the edge between Amatuer and Professional - he should be in the HIGHER class, not Cherry Picking for a Title.

One of my favorite races from MANY years ago was the RCThunderdrome events held on the huge bicycle velodromes by Dan from Dan's R/C Stuff and Gary from McAllister Racing Bodies.

This event promoted the AMATUER Racer, the EXPERT Racer and the PRO RACER and it was awesome...

The Expert/Pros all pitted under a HUGE Circus size tent with a Manufacture Row showcasing the products of the companies the drivers raced for, etc.

The Amatuer Pits were a separate Big Tent, and the atmosphere was AWESOME with however many hundred racers there were back then...

The HYPE was marketed well, and there was such a rush for racers to try to get their entry forms turned in (you had to wait for the RC Car Action Magazine to come out w/the entry in it..and send it THAT DAY - 1/2 the time Priority Mail or FedEx) Or else you were TOO Late and had to go on the "WAITING LIST"

Billed by Dan as "The GREATEST SPECTACLE in RC RACING" it was an exciting event to be a part of every year.

(Sorry JOE - I missed your post somehow) We kinda said the same thing
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Old 12-12-2007, 03:31 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SWTour View Post
Let's See - A NATIONAL EVENT , hence a race to crown a NATIONAL CHAMPION is not a race of "average joes", and SHOULD be a race of Champions, Sponsored Drivers and the Elite of the Elite.

However, in my humble but honest opinion NATIONAL EVENTS should also include a "Amatuer National Champion" class as well.

In the Amatuer class NO Sponsors should be allowed - NO Professional Racers should be allowed to enter..and if a racer is close on the edge between Amatuer and Professional - he should be in the HIGHER class, not Cherry Picking for a Title.
You're thought about not a race of "Average Joe's" is actually a pretty good thought.

We've discussed what "defines" an amateur or "sponsored" driver on numerous occasions. My personal situation, my son. Has never bought an RC part in his life, get's his entry fees paid, hotels and airfare paid. Is he a "pro" driver?

Same with 90% of the kids racing with their parents. Most aren't buying their parts. I said most. No need to change the thread to discuss somebody a person might know with a paper route buying a battery. Is a person that has a 50% off deal with a battery place, that much better off than somebody that paid $5-$7 more from a mailorder place? Should the guy that saved $21 on 3 packs of 4 cell batterys now have to race with Cyrul?

I don't know that I really like the idea of putting the pro's off in their own areas. I think it's fun to be able to hang out with "everybody". For some people that go as amateurs, all they might be able to bring back from an event was how cool it was to pit next to David Jun, and how he helped tweak the guys car for him. That kind of thing goes a long way, and the kind of advertising that you really can't buy as a manufacturer.

What defines a pro. Best left for another thread. Could get lengthy.

It's an interesting debate.
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Old 12-12-2007, 03:42 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SWTour View Post
Let's See - A NATIONAL EVENT , hence a race to crown a NATIONAL CHAMPION is not a race of "average joes", and SHOULD be a race of Champions, Sponsored Drivers and the Elite of the Elite.

However, in my humble but honest opinion NATIONAL EVENTS should also include a "Amatuer National Champion" class as well.

In the Amatuer class NO Sponsors should be allowed - NO Professional Racers should be allowed to enter..and if a racer is close on the edge between Amatuer and Professional - he should be in the HIGHER class, not Cherry Picking for a Title.

One of my favorite races from MANY years ago was the RCThunderdrome events held on the huge bicycle velodromes by Dan from Dan's R/C Stuff and Gary from McAllister Racing Bodies.

This event promoted the AMATUER Racer, the EXPERT Racer and the PRO RACER and it was awesome...

The Expert/Pros all pitted under a HUGE Circus size tent with a Manufacture Row showcasing the products of the companies the drivers raced for, etc.

The Amatuer Pits were a separate Big Tent, and the atmosphere was AWESOME with however many hundred racers there were back then...

The HYPE was marketed well, and there was such a rush for racers to try to get their entry forms turned in (you had to wait for the RC Car Action Magazine to come out w/the entry in it..and send it THAT DAY - 1/2 the time Priority Mail or FedEx) Or else you were TOO Late and had to go on the "WAITING LIST"

Billed by Dan as "The GREATEST SPECTACLE in RC RACING" it was an exciting event to be a part of every year.

(Sorry JOE - I missed your post somehow) We kinda said the same thing
this is i would like to see
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Old 12-12-2007, 04:30 PM   #27
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I think we may be taking this in a diffrerent direction than intended by myself or Bob Stormer either one.

I don't question the skill, or value of a "Pro" driver. Nor do I feel they should be segregated in any way other than running in a class where they clearly dont belong. That's a different (and tired) thread all together.

The issue goal of this thread, I believe, is to find ways to make racing stronger.
Staying positive, and not going off on the usual negative tangent is the easy thing to do. However, that has'nt helped in the past.

When given the chance to take in one or more events. What do you REALLY want to see or have at an event?

So, I say,

What makes you happy. Not winning or losing, what makes the event valuable and fun to you?

What things make you want to come back? As an example, a generalization like "professionalism" would need further explanation.

Thanks,
-Bob

What can be done to get more of the "Average Joes" to attend the Nationals and other "Big Shows"?

It seems that no matter who I talk to on the subject, as these case is always the same. (All pros at the big events) (None of our locals came out). I attended a ROAR National in 06 and out of 120 or so entries there were only 8 people who were non-sponsored "average joes" in the building, non of which were from the local area.

What's the cause of this? How can this be turned around?
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Old 12-12-2007, 04:46 PM   #28
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TOP 20 within a lap top 40 with in 2 laps miss it by half a lap and you might be down 2 mains. The location, food, pro, handouts mean nothing as long as the track is in good shape and the race is run reasonably. I'm just there for the competition.

01 46/8:05.343
02 46/8:07.411
03 46/8:08.211
04 46/8:10.017
05 46/8:10.158
06 46/8:10.291
07 46/8:10.434
08 45/8:00.043
09 45/8:00.122
10 45/8:00.177
11 45/8:00.668
12 45/8:00.858
13 45/8:00.997
14 45/8:01.269
15 45/8:01.531
16 45/8:02.315
17 45/8:02.459
18 45/8:02.485
19 45/8:02.658
20 45/8:04.471
21 45/8:06.749
22 45/8:07.132
23 45/8:07.461
24 45/8:07.709
25 45/8:09.303
26 45/8:09.399
27 45/8:09.629
28 45/8:09.802
29 45/8:09.932
30 45/8:10.473
31 44/8:00.488
32 44/8:00.612
33 44/8:01.583
34 44/8:02.562
35 44/8:02.598
36 44/8:02.899
37 44/8:02.939
38 44/8:03.119
39 44/8:03.370
40 44/8:04.529
41 44/8:05.915
42 44/8:07.701
43 44/8:08.029
44 44/8:08.201
45 44/8:08.521
46 44/8:08.665
47 44/8:10.627
48 44/8:11.295
49 43/8:04.315
50 43/8:06.130
51 43/8:06.228
52 43/8:06.846
53 43/8:07.444
54 43/8:07.622
55 43/8:10.346
56 42/8:00.802
57 42/8:00.884
58 42/8:01.908
59 42/8:03.798
60 42/8:10.050
61 42/8:11.427
62 41/8:00.516
63 41/8:00.850
64 41/8:01.944
65 41/8:02.713
66 41/8:03.064
67 41/8:03.437
68 41/8:06.021
69 41/8:06.675
70 41/8:07.843
71 41/8:08.776
72 40/8:04.040
73 40/8:07.571
74 40/8:11.291
75 40/8:11.620
76 38/8:05.119
77 38/8:07.764
78 37/8:12.281
79 36/8:04.021
80 32/8:08.151
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Old 12-12-2007, 05:03 PM   #29
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I go to big races to watch factory drivers run the absolute slowest class available. It's great fun to watch drivers that should be running 19 turn or mod wheel a lightning slow stock car for a bowling trophy.

It's really exciting honest. Way more exciting than watching all of the mod guys run. It's kinda like watching the special olympics except the top guys aren't special.
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Old 12-12-2007, 05:47 PM   #30
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A race promoter who cares about the racers with a nice & clean facility, and well orginized.
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