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Old 12-12-2007, 01:34 PM   #46
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timmay70 I have a stock can that has had no less than 5 arms through it. In regular club racing I run the brushes till the serrations are gone, sometimes longer, then I may drill a hole in the brush. I never race discolored brushes, and my car is always decently competitive in the speed department. Once in a big while I will turn the motor in to get it re-tuned with the equipment I don't have (magnet zapper), and this particular motor always bounces back fairly close to it's original performance. It's a myth that you have to re-tune a motor every run if you want to be fast. I witnessed first hand a team driver that left his motor in his car for every race run at the IIC, and his car was ballistic every round.

I will, however, agree that for now brushless motors will be more economical for the average joe club racer that heralds to the current creedo that you have to re-brush every round and the motor should be thrown away after 40 runs. But I am of the opinion that these racers are either made of money, or don't want to learn the very basics of keeping a motor in tune (which is not hard work), and are dying to drop some serious coin on the newest gear.

I am waiting for the day that people are complaining that they have to hire someone to re-tune their speed controllers because they don't know how to code, or forgot their PC at home
i agree i am the same but with less armatures and i run as fast or faster then the guys that change brushes every heat or retune there motor after every heat. i turn my com about every 15 heats and replace brushes when i cut the com and my motor seems to be quite fast
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Old 12-23-2007, 11:53 AM   #47
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All of this usually revolves around a base line of logic that goes something like this: "New technology is better because...x,y,z, AND it will level the playing field AND make racing less expensive".

This line of logic is so old that it is almost funny...almost that is but in reality it ends up getting very lame and very infuriating. Why? Because people ALWAYS figure out a way to make some aspect of the new technology or an adjacent technology have an advantage. That advantage goes undetected by most racers and the industry doesn't acknowledge it for some time while those that figure it out or are on the inside and get it passed to them utilize it to their advantage for some length of time. Then the advantage and its cost become known to more of the masses and they balk.

The industry finally starts to produce the advantage(s) so that everyone else can finally catch up...at a cost mind you, and then the theoretical state of nirvana is lost because you get...increased cost, more wear, more rules to be figured out and employed, etc.

Then someone looks to some outskirt technology to try to get their nirvana dream back and says "This will make racing easier and more fun while leveling the playing field and lessening the cost" and then they start a tyrannical, temper tantrum, I want it now, movement to force racers and the industry to adopt the new technology only to be horrified that their little predictions and promises of nirvana don't hold up.

They simply can't believe how things morph and get away from their desired dream state even though they were warned countless times. Why? Because they spent more time dictating how everyone would "have" to play according to their rules, utilize the new technology their way and shouldn't be allowed to do anything else with it while they rebutted every observation, test, and experience that was shared with them so that their nirvana could be achieved. They didn't want to be confused with anything outside of their desired reality, anything that didn't agree with what they thought was wrong. Racers that have any problems with the new technological order of their nirvana state are incompetent and haven't utilized the technology properly or surely they wouldn't have the problems or see the potential advantages that they have started to exploit because they don't exist. Everything works just right in the nirvana state...

Well sorry well wishers, this is RACING and THE goal of racing I have finally learned is to figure out advantages that others have not and then keep your mouth shut about it!!! When RobK, Jmccormick, Kraig, Wishbone and others tell you that the new technology is going to progress to places undreamed of the nirvana seekers better stop replying with "No they can't do that, we need to make rules to force them to keep our state of blissful, wishful thinking", because it is not going to happen.

We are already seeing that a new sintered rotor can really freshen up a 13.5 that is only a MONTH old. We are already seeing that certain BL's DO drive like a brushed motor which aides in chassis setup and gives an advantage in driving. We are already seeing that Lipo's cycled at certain out of "spec" amp rates DO provide increased power at the expense of longevity. We are already seeing that different BL's DO go faster than other brands and that timing and ESC adjustments DO make a difference.

Enjoy your wishful state of nirvana because in the next 6-12 months it will be only a mid summer nights dream that you can barely remember existed at all. BTW, I DO like BL but not because it is less maintenance (although I DO like this feature of it) and not because it "levels" the playing field (because we are already starting to see that it doesn't). I like BL because it gets me closer to being able to compete because it is so much faster and can make time at the increased speed (modified racing) that I can no longer compete WITHOUT it!!
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Old 12-23-2007, 06:19 PM   #48
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WOW!!!!!!!


I just like it cause... I'M LAZY!!
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Old 12-23-2007, 06:51 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by JoelV View Post
Sunday our local regionals I built motors every round. If anyone were to walk up to me and say "Hey, every time I see you, your building a motor, can you do mine?" I'd gladly tell them to bring it over.


could someone please read that back to me? LOL i haven't had to do that in a year now! viva la brushless!
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Old 12-23-2007, 07:25 PM   #50
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Default why hasn't brushless taken over, yet!

darnold, again you are 100% right. The reason brushless will not be the great equalizer is because very few racers want to race FAIR. Everyone is always looking for an edge because they are not willing, are not able, or simply don't want to win based on their setup and driving ability. The basic reason a fresh 13.5 rotor speeds up a 1 month old 13.5 can is because that motor has been run 1 degree from the max temperature in an effort to gain the last 2% of speed out of it. Would that rotor speed up a 13.5 that has never gotten over 140 degrees?

I have said this many times on rctech and I think it makes sense: the more mandating you do, in terms of motor, battery, and weight, the cheaper and closer the racing is. Spec racing doesn't have to be silver can tl01 racing. It can be any 4wd chassis, with a specific brushless motor, any speedo (nobody has yet shown that a speedo makes much of a difference,) a specific lipo battery, fixed min weight, and a max final drive ratio. That's it. The speed of the racing can be easily determined by the brushless motor selected and the final drive ratio.

In the long run, the above scenario will be much, much cheaper than racing is now, and it will also be much closer. But who wants to race based on their driving skill?
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Old 12-23-2007, 09:43 PM   #51
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Was it ever fair ?
Team motor`s & battery`s that you could not buy ?

Give the new tech a chance .....


At least you can buy it at your track and race with it ....
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Old 12-23-2007, 10:00 PM   #52
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could someone please read that back to me? LOL i haven't had to do that in a year now! viva la brushless!
Personally I enjoy building motors. Part of the hobby and that day I rebuilt my own motor once right before the main.
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Old 12-23-2007, 11:05 PM   #53
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Yep, have to agree: brushless and LiPo is the up and coming future. Only been involved in building/racing a short while; more familiar with rebuilding heads for 350 motors and building/driving RC tanks. All I have seen and heard w/cars, trucks is brushless and Lipo. Most of the writeups in magazines are about those. And yes, they do cost more than brushed. I setup b-less and LiPo in my Mini and it has been pretty dependable and sure enough fassst enough although I am still getting over "sticker shock." Coulda had a V-8
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Old 12-23-2007, 11:31 PM   #54
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Brushless is not the future it is the present, we should have been running it 3 years ago.

Lithium batteries on the other hand should be banned from all racing, club days nationals the lot.

I have used Lithiums in my heli and plane and they are great until something goes wrong. With Nimh sure the odd cell dies or blows up but this is mostly due to mis manufacutre or abuse. I personally have only ever had one cell blow up and a few die over the years.

When using Lipos I have had them swell up, explode, burst into flames whilst in flight and completely distroy my plane, radio gear, speedy, motor and when it landed started a grass fire. Lithiums cannot be put out once alight they burn until they are consumed.

I have always been ultra carefull with Lipos, low charge rates such as 0.8A or 1.5A depending on the cells. Failure doesn't happen very often and the few that have failed were 1 brand new, 2 about 1 month old. These Lipos were $200 a pop at the time and I can assure you after the fire I no longer use them.

Have a search on Dell computers bursting into flames, this was a serious issue and has resulted in buildings being burnt down.

Lipos are great until something goes wrong.

As to stock classes for brushless vs brushed there will not be a problem if everyone is running the same ie brushless which has already happened at my local clubs.

Certainly new specs will have to be written up but the end result will be everyone will be using brushless. There will also be the people seeking the advantage but brushless is easier, cheaper in the long run and should if done correctly level the playing field more so than what it is now.
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Old 12-24-2007, 02:16 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frozenpod View Post
Brushless is not the future it is the present, we should have been running it 3 years ago.

Lithium batteries on the other hand should be banned from all racing, club days nationals the lot.

I have used Lithiums in my heli and plane and they are great until something goes wrong. With Nimh sure the odd cell dies or blows up but this is mostly due to mis manufacutre or abuse. I personally have only ever had one cell blow up and a few die over the years.

When using Lipos I have had them swell up, explode, burst into flames whilst in flight and completely distroy my plane, radio gear, speedy, motor and when it landed started a grass fire. Lithiums cannot be put out once alight they burn until they are consumed.

I have always been ultra carefull with Lipos, low charge rates such as 0.8A or 1.5A depending on the cells. Failure doesn't happen very often and the few that have failed were 1 brand new, 2 about 1 month old. These Lipos were $200 a pop at the time and I can assure you after the fire I no longer use them.

Have a search on Dell computers bursting into flames, this was a serious issue and has resulted in buildings being burnt down.

Lipos are great until something goes wrong.

As to stock classes for brushless vs brushed there will not be a problem if everyone is running the same ie brushless which has already happened at my local clubs.

Certainly new specs will have to be written up but the end result will be everyone will be using brushless. There will also be the people seeking the advantage but brushless is easier, cheaper in the long run and should if done correctly level the playing field more so than what it is now.
I agree that brushless is the now, not the future. But i disagree about outlawing lipo's, I have been lipo only except for bump boxes for a year now, no problems. My Lipo collection includes polyquest, flightpower (soft packs, not the hard case) maxamps and a couple hobby city (cheap) lipo's for mini's. No swelling, no leaks, nothing. I know the law of averages will give me some problems down the line, but i have had fun and enjoyed the power and runtime of my lipo's and do not regret converting to them
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Old 12-24-2007, 07:42 PM   #56
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BRUSHLESS AND LIPO'S ROCK. RACED ALL LAST SUMMER WITH A NOVAK 4300 AND A 6000 MAXAMP LIPO. ZERO MAINTENCE AND ZERO PROBLEMS. SOLD ALL MY CUSTOM HAND WOUND ARMS, MOTOR LATHE, BATTERY ZAPPER, CELL MATCHING ELECTRONICS. I LIKE HAVING MORE TIME TO WORK ON MY CAR AND DO MODS.
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Old 12-24-2007, 10:08 PM   #57
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ok- I worded it wrong (oops) brushless and LiPo are here and now.
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