R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Electric On-Road

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 12-10-2007, 05:31 AM   #1
Tech Adept
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 208
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default Brushless motor testing

Is there a way to measure your brushless motor performance without specialized equipment?

How do you when its time to buy a new motor?
yeahyeah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2007, 06:16 AM   #2
Tech Master
 
I)arkness's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Victoria,Aus
Posts: 1,106
Trader Rating: 7 (100%+)
Default

here you go, this is for novak motors

http://www.teamnovak.com/tech_info/m...ech/index.html
I)arkness is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2007, 06:16 AM   #3
Tech Adept
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Oslo, Norway
Posts: 237
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by yeahyeah View Post
Is there a way to measure your brushless motor performance without specialized equipment?

How do you when its time to buy a new motor?
I Think if you replace the rotor it will be like new, to test you have to run it through the BL ESC

Alf :-)
alf.skaar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2007, 06:22 AM   #4
Tech Addict
 
Jmccormick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: maine
Posts: 626
Default

Big John Zubak offers a nice unit called the "zubak speed meter" it measures the magnetic output of the rotor. If the rotors mag is weak then replace it simple as that and the performance of the motor will be like new.
Other then this tool and a temp gun I dont see any other "specialized" stuff needed for brushless.

this sure beats
1)motor lath
2)hood alignment tool
3)various types of brushes and spring combo's
4)mag zapper
5)shims
6)motor dyno
7)various lubes and drops(for motors)lol
8)comm stick
etc etc
Jmccormick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2007, 07:22 AM   #5
Tech Master
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,052
Trader Rating: 16 (94%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jmccormick View Post

this sure beats
1)motor lath
2)hood alignment tool
3)various types of brushes and spring combo's
4)mag zapper
5)shims
6)motor dyno
7)various lubes and drops(for motors)lol
8)comm stick
etc etc
Amen to that!
kn7671 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2007, 08:00 AM   #6
Tech Master
 
chicky03's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,993
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to chicky03
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jmccormick View Post
Big John Zubak offers a nice unit called the "zubak speed meter" it measures the magnetic output of the rotor. If the rotors mag is weak then replace it simple as that and the performance of the motor will be like new.
Other then this tool and a temp gun I dont see any other "specialized" stuff needed for brushless.

this sure beats
1)motor lath
2)hood alignment tool
3)various types of brushes and spring combo's
4)mag zapper
5)shims
6)motor dyno
7)various lubes and drops(for motors)lol
8)comm stick
etc etc
Thats because it is still new. There will be more tuning options available for these motors eventually. I can see there being options of rotors in .1mm increments, different timing, different wire sizes, different material for laminations, everyone trying to find the strongest or weakest magnet rotors to give the best performance on a particular track, people will figure out ways to reprogram speedos to give more timing. The time is not here yet but it will be. It's racing, racers will go to all measures to make every thing faster.

Paul
__________________
Serpent America, Picco, Desoto Racing, Motiv, J Concepts, Nitro Pro fuel, PT RC Racing Oils, TQ Wire(best wire ever!), BSR tires, Arrowmax, Xceed, Sanwa, Amain Hobbies, MIP, Getcustomized, EZ Customs
chicky03 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2007, 08:05 AM   #7
Tech Master
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Brisbane. Australia
Posts: 1,820
Trader Rating: 5 (100%+)
Default

dont ya just love it companies market brushless first off as maintenance free then pushed performance soon they will be selling upgrades etc etc. kinda stuff our selves up. can never be happy with what we have. what was wrong with 4.5 turn motors? sure go faster but if the guy next to u runs a 3.5 aswell then ur really no faster. so why not a gentlemens agreement? save us all money. i think were all a lil crazy
__________________
Josh P
to make Keith happy
Corally phi
M11
SP GT
SP 5.5,17.5
aus jd 2703 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2007, 08:06 AM   #8
Tech Elite
 
Johnny Wishbone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,419
Trader Rating: 6 (100%+)
Default

Finally a pro comes out with the real info about brushless technology. I've only been saying this for over a year, new tech, new toys, new developments.
Johnny Wishbone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2007, 08:27 AM   #9
Tech Lord
 
syndr0me's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: 5280 Raceway
Posts: 13,140
Trader Rating: 32 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by chicky03 View Post
Thats because it is still new. There will be more tuning options available for these motors eventually. I can see there being options of rotors in .1mm increments, different timing, different wire sizes, different material for laminations, everyone trying to find the strongest or weakest magnet rotors to give the best performance on a particular track, people will figure out ways to reprogram speedos to give more timing. The time is not here yet but it will be. It's racing, racers will go to all measures to make every thing faster.
I totally agree. In fact, I'm surprised it hasn't happened more already, especially with the oval crowd.

What I'm not sure of, yet, is how much those things will matter. Clearly, a tuned brushed stock motor is MUCH faster than an untuned one, so there's a lot of incentive to spend all that time with them. If the gains are much smaller when tuning brushless, will people still spend as much time and effort trying to get them right? The tuning with brushless seems to be more about feel than outright speed. I'll be very interested to see how things progress. What do you think?
syndr0me is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2007, 08:54 AM   #10
Tech Master
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,038
Trader Rating: 27 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by aus jd 2703 View Post
so why not a gentlemens agreement?
No such thing in R/C. People will always look for the upper hand...shame, really
convikt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2007, 09:21 AM   #11
Tech Elite
 
SWTour's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Central Coast...CALIF.
Posts: 2,874
Trader Rating: 9 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
I totally agree. In fact, I'm surprised it hasn't happened more already, especially with the oval crowd
Well, I'm hoping since there are a lot of us OVAL types that have seen So many mistakes made over the years. (Especially guys like me who have been racing over 22 years)

Currently a big reason why things are NOT too badly screwed up with technology and brushless motors in OVAL racing is because we are limiting the racing to just ONE MFG.

There are some who don't like this - and for the most part 'WE DON'T CARE'

Staying with ONE motor Mfg. has created some of THE closet racing we have ever had. It's made the racing so much MORE about the quality of the driver vs. WHO HAS THE BIGGEST BUDGET or the ACCESS to "Closed Door" technology.

For the most part there has only been 2 motor MFG's on the market during my first 2 decades of racing. EPIC and YOKOMO Yes there are/were others like AYK , RACE PREP, AIR SUPPLY and a couple others who grabbed a very small piece of the market at times..but year in and year out it was the BIG TWO..and really #2 in the BIG TWO appeared to have about a 10% market share.

YOU Want Technology to SCREW up racing - let the MFG's go WILD building what ever...and you'll have it.
__________________
Joe Myers
R/C Racing since 1985 ~ Santa Maria, CA (Central Coast)
2001-2012 - South-West Tour R/C Oval Series...will the SWT be revived?
Things are headed towards a return of the SWT Series, but for
2017 the focus will be on the Encino Velodrome (and dirt oval racing)
SWTour is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2007, 11:56 AM   #12
Tech Fanatic
 
James35's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada
Posts: 750
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by chicky03 View Post
Thats because it is still new. There will be more tuning options available for these motors eventually. I can see there being options of rotors in .1mm increments, different timing, different wire sizes, different material for laminations, everyone trying to find the strongest or weakest magnet rotors to give the best performance on a particular track...
Those items are things you buy, and can't be altered/modified. They are drop-in replacements or different types of motors. It's nothing that a new racer would need tuning equipment for. No need to spend a year or more learning how to tune properly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chicky03 View Post
....people will figure out ways to reprogram speedos to give more timing. The time is not here yet but it will be.
Paul
You can advance or retard the timing until you are blue in the face. The strength of the electromagnetic field the coils produce will only generate so much Watts of power out of the motor.
James35 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2007, 12:04 PM   #13
Tech Elite
 
Johnny Wishbone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,419
Trader Rating: 6 (100%+)
Default

[
For the most part there has only been 2 motor MFG's on the market during my first 2 decades of racing. EPIC and YOKOMO Yes there are/were others like AYK , RACE PREP, AIR SUPPLY and a couple others who grabbed a very small piece of the market at times..but year in and year out it was the BIG TWO..and really #2 in the BIG TWO appeared to have about a 10% market share.


Igarashi, mabuchi, and old checkpoint.
Johnny Wishbone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2007, 01:46 PM   #14
Tech Elite
 
SWTour's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Central Coast...CALIF.
Posts: 2,874
Trader Rating: 9 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Igarashi, mabuchi, and old checkpoint
Yup, in 22 years I bought at least ONE of each of those too. (Still have the original CHECKPOINT from some 15-16 years ago)

Mabuchi is probably THE biggest 540 motor builder by volume....I'd bet!
__________________
Joe Myers
R/C Racing since 1985 ~ Santa Maria, CA (Central Coast)
2001-2012 - South-West Tour R/C Oval Series...will the SWT be revived?
Things are headed towards a return of the SWT Series, but for
2017 the focus will be on the Encino Velodrome (and dirt oval racing)
SWTour is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2007, 07:50 PM   #15
Tech Master
 
miller tyme's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Indiana
Posts: 1,713
Trader Rating: 2 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jmccormick View Post
Big John Zubak offers a nice unit called the "zubak speed meter" it measures the magnetic output of the rotor. If the rotors mag is weak then replace it simple as that and the performance of the motor will be like new.
Other then this tool and a temp gun I dont see any other "specialized" stuff needed for brushless.

this sure beats
1)motor lath
2)hood alignment tool
3)various types of brushes and spring combo's
4)mag zapper
5)shims
6)motor dyno
7)various lubes and drops(for motors)lol
8)comm stick
etc etc
Instead you have:
1) Timing
2) sintered, non-sintered
3) Ceramic bearings or not
4) Rotor Diameter
5) sensored / Sensorless
6) Zubak speed meter (as pricey as most brushed tools combined)
7) Not to mention no real means of dyno-ing
8) Still more to be determined since this is an infantile technology in RC

Now don't take this wrong I am slowly converting over to BL, but at $80 for a stock motor thats ~3 brushed motors and I still run an old CO-27 and still competitevly as new ones if cared for. My point is BL is convient and fast out of the box... but the winners will still be those who buy the bearings, measure rotor dia, and rotor magnetic strength, Going throwing many away to get the right one...etc...etc
__________________
Ken Miller
RCTarget - Capricorn - Pro Level RC - MAX Power - Maxima Fuel - EA Motorsorts - TQ Wire

LONG LIVE OPEN MODIFIED
miller tyme is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Motor Testing parnelli97 Electric On-Road 4 09-13-2007 11:23 PM
Tekin Brushless testing! Randy Pike Electric Off-Road 138 07-08-2007 04:17 PM
testing water.. want to trade brushless rc18t for off road racer streetracer1 R/C Items: For Sale/Trade 3 08-07-2006 11:29 AM
testing waters...brushless rc18t streetracer1 R/C Items: Wanted to Buy 3 07-10-2006 04:50 PM



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 07:38 AM.


We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net