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Old 12-12-2007, 08:56 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by yyhayyim View Post
That's nice to see!!! But once again,, a USA racing organization, FSEARA, beat you to it Plus they're allow it in all classes----ooooohhhh

www.FSEARA.org
You are going to see more and more of this in 2008. I am pretty sure one of the larger established off-road races is going to allow LiPo next year. The JConcepts clash allowed it this year. And ROAR's Lipo/brushless truck class (20-minute main) should be a recognized nationals class in 2008.
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Old 12-12-2007, 09:29 AM   #62
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Rick,

Are any pro guys experimenting with LiPo in mod sedans? We've found them to be a little slower than NiMH in in 13.5 and 10.5, but seemingly LiPo does better under situations with higher current draw. I haven't seen much to indicate if mod racing draws enough for that advantage to be noticeable on the track.
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Old 12-12-2007, 10:39 AM   #63
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Another major event in the U.S. that is also allowing the LiPo's is the Columbus Midwest Electric Off-Road Champs in all mod classes this coming January '08 for the first time. Historically they've always seemed to be strict on battery legality rules far as ROAR guidelines went, so this is a first and good news of things to come.

It seems from what I've seen lately at tracks that it doesn't seem to matter how high of a Mah capacity LiPo of the next guy to you has (long as the packs are based on 7.4 vlt hook-up rule, such as NiMh are on 7.2 vlt in a series) because you can ONLY take out so much Mah (around 3,000 Mah, give or take) and power of a battery during a 5-6 minutes qualifier and races in off-road events in 2wd/4wd etc.

Nobody seems to care or says one pack gives an advantage over another based on capacity. That doesn’t seem to be the case at all! There are some guys that consistently out qualify others using 3200 carbon packs easily based on driver skill & set-up from weekend to weekend in 7 minutes mains, while the rest are using bigger 6,000-8000 Mah packs or more! So I agree with Rick on this one totally, long as LiPo fit the 7.4 vlt rule for events.

Last edited by 4wd Racer; 12-12-2007 at 10:41 AM. Reason: grammar
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Old 12-12-2007, 10:52 AM   #64
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Rick,

Are any pro guys experimenting with LiPo in mod sedans? We've found them to be a little slower than NiMH in in 13.5 and 10.5, but seemingly LiPo does better under situations with higher current draw. I haven't seen much to indicate if mod racing draws enough for that advantage to be noticeable on the track.
Yes. Me!

Actually most of the LiPo testing I have done is in TC with a modified motor. LiPo for me makes a HUGE difference in modified. With the same motor and gearing, the car is much faster in terms of speed. In fact, I did little to balance the car and I thought thehandling difference was not even that pronounced.

I have now done a lot of bench testing with LiPo. As yo may be aware, there are as many companies manufacturing LiPo batteries as are manufacturing NiMH. And there are drastic differences in performance just as there is with NiMH.

The battery we have sourced is a safe as anything available (according to manufacturer's docs) and performs better on the bench. Plus it is already proven winner on track (Ryan Maifield - JConcepts Clash 2wd).

What you don't see on the pics is that there will be a balance connector. We will also be releasing pricing info shortly but we expect a $90.00 street price for the 5000.
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Old 12-12-2007, 11:07 AM   #65
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Thanks Rick, that's great to hear.

We've definitely noticed that the Orion packs have the lowest voltage of almost any LiPo. The best results so far have come from the Saehan-Enertech cells, which have the best voltage, and supposedly great cycle life. They're just too long, and kind of a hassle to use because of it.
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Old 12-12-2007, 11:08 AM   #66
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Thanks Rick,


You have a PM


Later
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Old 12-12-2007, 01:39 PM   #67
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...but we expect a $90.00 street price for the 5000.
Now THAT is nice to hear.
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Old 12-12-2007, 07:58 PM   #68
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Now THAT is nice to hear.
You cant beat the price...I'll be getting a few when they come out...

Reedy/AE [email protected]$90=55.5mah per $

[email protected]$130=36.92mah per$

[email protected]$135=37.03mah per $
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Old 12-12-2007, 10:52 PM   #69
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I’ll wait to see what the actual street price is, they usually start a little high then fall off after a while.

Far as cost, I wasn’t able to relate to that price comparison chart you put up readily or understand it quickly. It’s probably far easier and less complicated to figure out the rate per 1,000 Mah for Lipo’s pack perhaps. For instance just like matchers do with NiMh’s by setting a rate per cell for a six cell pack. If a six cell pack cost $60 to match, then you can assume the set rate is $10 in that case per cell.

Using that example for Lipo’s in a similar sense, if the rate was set for each 1,000 Mah in a given capacity of a Lipo pack to compare them side by side. It would be easily readily understood calculated as…

Reedy ……. $90 for 5,000 Mah pack = ($18.00 per 1,000 Mah)
Trinity……...$90 for 4,500 Mah pack = ($20.00 per 1,000 Mah)
Orion….…….$75 for 3,200 Mah pack = ($23.44 per 1,000 Mah)
Trakpower.$115 for 4,900 Mah pack = ($23.47 per 1,000 Mah)
Corerc.……$135 for 5,000 Mah pack = ($27.00 per 1,000 Mah)
Orion……...$130 for 4,800 Mah pack = ($27.08 per 1,000 Mah)
& so on etc.
another source
Orion………$120 for 4,800 Mah pack = ($25.00 per 1,000 Mah)

Perhaps that would be a better way to do it, and most easily understood by racers at a quick glance, just like NiMh that often range in cost from $8 to $15 per cell when matched. Remember though, not all Lipo’s are created equal from each companies though, lol.

Last edited by 4wd Racer; 12-12-2007 at 11:06 PM. Reason: grammar
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Old 12-12-2007, 11:43 PM   #70
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$ per mAh isn't really a great comparison. It doesn't quantify the things that differentiate one battery from the next. Safety, voltage, cycle life, and overall quality, to name a few.
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Old 12-13-2007, 12:04 AM   #71
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True, I totally agree! Different brands of cells vary in price, and also in performance and quality. We saw this in the case-by-case example of IB-4200 and EP-4200 version NiMh cells lately, among others similar capacity NiMh’s cell offered.

However I did end my previous post by stating the following disclaimer for the rest of the forum readers, "Remember though, not all Lipo’s are created equal from each companies.”

Aside from all that, I'm pretty sure though that all of the prices above reflects those companies that sell their Lipo's in hardcase as a quick reference guide for the buyer, but doesn't necessarily of course reflect the differences in Lipo cell manufacturer selection, performance, quality or reliability of the packs offered for sale on the market.
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Old 12-13-2007, 06:32 PM   #72
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What you don't see on the pics is that there will be a balance connector. We will also be releasing pricing info shortly but we expect a $90.00 street price for the 5000.
What type of balancing connector will the pack come with? Also $90
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Old 12-16-2007, 05:02 PM   #73
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The sub $100 price tag will be nice, but why only a 20C rating when many others are touting that they are now 25C?
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Old 12-16-2007, 05:24 PM   #74
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.....because then they would'nt be $90 a pack.
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Old 12-17-2007, 08:53 AM   #75
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What type of balancing connector will the pack come with? Also $90
I am not familiar with the part code #s but it will be they standard type connector. It will not include a "port" like some other batteries.

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The sub $100 price tag will be nice, but why only a 20C rating when many others are touting that they are now 25C?
C rating is a funny thing. The numbers are thrown around randomly and it is difficult to test the actual C rating to determing the truthfulness of claims.

Another thing about C rating is that it alone does not determine the capabilities of the battery. You have to take the capacity into consideration as well to determine the continuous discharge capability of the battery.

The following battery data gives you an idea of what I am talking about. A 30C 3200mAh battery will have a continuous current rating of 96 amps while a 25C 3600 will have a continuous current rating of 90 amps. A 20C 5000mAh battery has a rating of 100 amps. This example give you an idea of how you can't only the C rating or capacity whern comparing batteries.

It would be great to release a 30C 5000 mAh battery, but it would be extremely expensive and overkill.
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