R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Electric On-Road

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 03-19-2008, 11:11 AM   #196
Tech Elite
 
wallstreet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,904
Trader Rating: 20 (92%+)
Send a message via AIM to wallstreet
Default

Rick can you fill us in on the equipment you used for balancing and charging?

I saw a photo of your pit and there were a few different things in there.. just wondering what worked the best. I need a charger and balancer.
wallstreet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2008, 11:20 AM   #197
Tech Lord
 
syndr0me's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: 5280 Raceway
Posts: 13,140
Trader Rating: 32 (100%+)
Default

Rick,

Did you experiment at all with heating the cells while using them at the nats? Did you notice any disadvantage (or advantage) with the LiPo when running them against people using NiMH?
syndr0me is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2008, 11:47 AM   #198
Tech Elite
 
Rick Hohwart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 3,935
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by convikt View Post
music to my ears.....

How much capacity was the battery taking after the mod runs?
When recharging, the battery would take about 3500 for modified and 2600 for 10.5.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wallstreet View Post
Rick can you fill us in on the equipment you used for balancing and charging?

I saw a photo of your pit and there were a few different things in there.. just wondering what worked the best. I need a charger and balancer.
I was testing a balance charger from a company we might deal on the electronics side of things. I think the same company makes Losi/Horizon's balance charger. It works very well although I did not use the balance charge fucntion as I did not have a balance port extension that would allow me to charge in the LiPo sack. So I used the standard LiPo charge function.

The LRP works well but I did not have a proper Deans plug adapter and was worried about shorting the battery.


Quote:
Originally Posted by syndr0me View Post
Rick,

Did you experiment at all with heating the cells while using them at the nats? Did you notice any disadvantage (or advantage) with the LiPo when running them against people using NiMH?
I did not. I wanted to use the batteries in the simplest way possible. And in a way that most users will want to use them. I had two batteries per class. So what I did was charge each battery after I ran it and set it aside for use the following day. And repeated the process each day. For the main day, I had to run 6 times so I ran two batteries twice.

In modified, I was as fast as I felt comfortable. I could have been faster but with modified you can be too fast and go slow. So it is not the best test. In 10.5, you can use all the power you can get. And I felt I was as fast or faster than the other 10.5 cars in the A-main. My car was ultimately not as good (getting into the corner), as the others, but it was fast!

I have bench tested battery warming and multiple cyles with no real difference in performance. But i will have to do some track testing to see what i can come up with. For now, I don't think any special care or precedures are necessary.
Rick Hohwart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2008, 11:53 AM   #199
Tech Lord
 
syndr0me's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: 5280 Raceway
Posts: 13,140
Trader Rating: 32 (100%+)
Default

Thanks Rick, I appreciate the info.

I've been experimenting with getting LiPo (different brand) to around 130F before running them (after a charge), and the increase in voltage was significant enough that I thermaled my motor when using the same gearing as a cold pack. However, my understanding is that the benefit of heating packs may be highly dependent on cell chemistry, and could vary from one manufacturer to the next.

Running them the most simple way possible sounds like a big win. :-)

Thank you for testing these on such a large stage. It seems like pro racers are slow to try new things at big races, presumably because of sponsorship deals and such. It's great to get feedback like this, it doesn't seem to happen often enough.
syndr0me is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2008, 02:23 PM   #200
Tech Regular
 
overflow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Riverside, CA
Posts: 356
Trader Rating: 8 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Hohwart View Post
I don't have any pics of the car, but I used prototype bolt in ballast that uses the existing holes for the battery strap mounts. Then I tape the battery in as you would with a standard battery. We are working on releasing this item for sale to the public.

There are some other ballast designs on the market that are available now that will work too.

How much weight did you have to add? I also herd about a possible new chassis for the tc5 to better accommodate the lipo. Can you give any info on this?
Thanks for the info!
__________________
Dennis Vice

[HOTBODIES] [SPEED PASSION]
---------------------------------------------------------
overflow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2008, 02:30 PM   #201
Tech Elite
 
Rick Hohwart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 3,935
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by syndr0me View Post
Thanks Rick, I appreciate the info.

I've been experimenting with getting LiPo (different brand) to around 130F before running them (after a charge), and the increase in voltage was significant enough that I thermaled my motor when using the same gearing as a cold pack. However, my understanding is that the benefit of heating packs may be highly dependent on cell chemistry, and could vary from one manufacturer to the next.

Running them the most simple way possible sounds like a big win. :-)

Thank you for testing these on such a large stage. It seems like pro racers are slow to try new things at big races, presumably because of sponsorship deals and such. It's great to get feedback like this, it doesn't seem to happen often enough.
130F seems awfully high. I guess it depends on the class you are racing but 100F seems to be the best starting point. But it will depend on each individual cell.
Rick Hohwart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2008, 02:32 PM   #202
Tech Elite
 
Rick Hohwart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 3,935
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by overflow View Post
How much weight did you have to add? I also herd about a possible new chassis for the tc5 to better accommodate the lipo. Can you give any info on this?
Thanks for the info!

It works out to about 5 ounces. A new chassis is not necessary and not planned at this time.
Rick Hohwart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2008, 04:18 PM   #203
Tech Regular
 
overflow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Riverside, CA
Posts: 356
Trader Rating: 8 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Hohwart View Post
It works out to about 5 ounces. A new chassis is not necessary and not planned at this time.
Thanks again for the info, looking foward to picking one of these up!
__________________
Dennis Vice

[HOTBODIES] [SPEED PASSION]
---------------------------------------------------------
overflow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2008, 05:04 PM   #204
Tech Elite
 
Johnny Wishbone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,419
Trader Rating: 6 (100%+)
Default Rick Howart re-Lipo/Nimh issues

So Rick, since your about the only guy I know thats straight up about everything and you where running the LiPo at the Nats, did you have, or did you hear of anyone with battery issues, you know, fires, melt downs, explosions? This question is not only for LiPo but for NiMh as well, curious minds want to know. Thanks
Johnny Wishbone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2008, 05:14 PM   #205
Tech Elite
 
Rick Hohwart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 3,935
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Wishbone View Post
So Rick, since your about the only guy I know thats straight up about everything and you where running the LiPo at the Nats, did you have, or did you hear of anyone with battery issues, you know, fires, melt downs, explosions? This question is not only for LiPo but for NiMh as well, curious minds want to know. Thanks
There were no LiPo issues. But most of the drivers used NiMH. ROAR was pretty good about requiring charging LiPos in a LiPo sack, and checking the battery voltage in tech. There is no way you could mess up a battery.

There were at least two NiMH battery failures although I did not witness them personally.
Rick Hohwart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2008, 07:36 PM   #206
Tech Champion
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: St Louis
Posts: 7,868
Trader Rating: 198 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Wishbone View Post
So Rick, since your about the only guy I know thats straight up about everything and you where running the LiPo at the Nats, did you have, or did you hear of anyone with battery issues, you know, fires, melt downs, explosions? This question is not only for LiPo but for NiMh as well, curious minds want to know. Thanks
There were voltage issues on lipo's at tech. There were some chargers taking the voltage above the 8.44 spec. I do not htink Rick had this problem.
__________________
Please become an organ donor.
www.donatelife.net
Custom decals and Sno-Tee'z, T-Shirts by Sno Camel
dodgeguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2008, 08:27 PM   #207
Tech Master
 
Verndog's Avatar
R/C Tech Elite Subscriber
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: PPDBillet.com USA
Posts: 1,845
Trader Rating: 16 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by overflow View Post
Hey Rick, Got any pics or can you give us an idea how they were adding weight to the TC5 with the Reedy lipo?

Thanks!
I have one of AE's top drivers testing our TC5 weight system with the new Reedy packs. I expect to have some feedback soon on how they worked out. He's mounting them with the base weight and side weight both that can be seen here. As seen that adds 5.5oz




In the testing I've done and feedback from others, likely I'd recommend removing the humps and installing the 3.0oz base plate...that is if they allow pack movement anything like the Orion 3600 humps. If not, great, but you loose the opportunity to help drop COG buy putting plastic in those slots instead of a heavier metal.

Another option is flip the packs "humps up" and mount to a mounting plate if you dont want to mod your pack. The wiring exit looks user friendly enough to give serveral options.
__________________
--->Dial-a-Grip for TC6
Kevin -- PPDBillet---TC6---Exoray 008
---Team Hoarders---

Last edited by Verndog; 03-19-2008 at 08:38 PM.
Verndog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2008, 09:34 PM   #208
Tech Elite
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Chandler, Arizona
Posts: 3,273
Send a message via AIM to Dawn Sanchez
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dodgeguy View Post
There were voltage issues on lipo's at tech. There were some chargers taking the voltage above the 8.44 spec. I do not htink Rick had this problem.

True.. this was found to be one charging system in particular. Using a different system on the same battery - the battery was found to be within legal limits on several post charge occasions.

I will be contacting this charging system supplier/MFG later this week to see what ROAR can do to assist our membership with this situation at future events.
Dawn Sanchez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2008, 05:51 AM   #209
Tech Master
 
Xpress's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Dirt sucks!
Posts: 1,614
Trader Rating: 3 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Hohwart View Post
There were no LiPo issues. But most of the drivers used NiMH. ROAR was pretty good about requiring charging LiPos in a LiPo sack, and checking the battery voltage in tech. There is no way you could mess up a battery.

There were at least two NiMH battery failures although I did not witness them personally.
Did you do any back to back testing between LiPo and NiMH at the race? Your thoughts?
__________________
"Desire is the key to motivation, but it's the determination and commitment to an unrelenting pursuit of laying it down - a commitment to excellence - that will enable you to attain the success you seek to beat ass."

-Espo
Xpress is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2008, 09:18 AM   #210
Tech Elite
 
Rick Hohwart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 3,935
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dodgeguy View Post
There were voltage issues on lipo's at tech. There were some chargers taking the voltage above the 8.44 spec. I do not htink Rick had this problem.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawn Sanchez View Post
True.. this was found to be one charging system in particular. Using a different system on the same battery - the battery was found to be within legal limits on several post charge occasions.

I will be contacting this charging system supplier/MFG later this week to see what ROAR can do to assist our membership with this situation at future events.
I have not found a single LiPo charger that when set at 8.40. volts produces a charged battery that reads 8.40V on a voltmeter. Even two chargers from the same manufacturer produced different ending voltages.

The problem is that the components used can easily produce readings that can easily vary up to .04V. With NiMh this is not an issue because the actual voltage is insignificant. We are measuring the changes in voltage.

ROAR will not be able to require manufactueres of chargers to use higher priced componenets that minimze voltage variations. The only thing they (or any track) can do is check the voltage of each car as it passes through tech.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xpress View Post
Did you do any back to back testing between LiPo and NiMH at the race? Your thoughts?
I did not. For me, the object of this test was to always run LiPo so that I could determine the proper gearing, ESC settings, and car setup without influence from NiMH settings.
Rick Hohwart is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
LiPo hard case for SuperStock Szimon Electric On-Road 1 09-09-2008 09:21 AM
wtb hard case lipo savageboy69 R/C Items: Wanted to Buy 7 07-27-2008 07:56 AM
28c Hard Case Lipo Now In Stock dgullickson Commercial Marketplace 0 03-03-2008 12:31 PM
WTB: Orion Lipo or other hard case lipo. BADAZZPSD R/C Items: Wanted to Buy 5 02-29-2008 07:01 AM



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 08:10 PM.


We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net