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Old 12-08-2007, 02:01 PM   #1
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Default why need for standard 13.5 motor??

why do we insist on parity with brushless motors for?


for brushed motors there are many usable 27turn motor, many brushes, many springs you can use, put all the possible combinations together you prob could get 100 variants of 27t Stock motor. not to mention dyno, magnet zappers and other trick spent on getting the fastest stock motor.


brushed motors are never created equal, if anything there was a huge gap between the fast 27t and the slow 27 turn at the track

these days you cant tell which 13.5t brushless is the "fast" brushless as there all just as fast. and has been more fairer than ever.

i think so long as its a 13.5t bonded, sintered, 13mm sintered who cares, then run it in 13.5t class (or stock class if your club allows)
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Old 12-08-2007, 02:05 PM   #2
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"Racing without rules is bashing."

/thread
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Old 12-08-2007, 02:36 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by magm20001 View Post
why do we insist on parity with brushless motors for?


for brushed motors there are many usable 27turn motor, many brushes, many springs you can use, put all the possible combinations together you prob could get 100 variants of 27t Stock motor. not to mention dyno, magnet zappers and other trick spent on getting the fastest stock motor.


brushed motors are never created equal, if anything there was a huge gap between the fast 27t and the slow 27 turn at the track

these days you cant tell which 13.5t brushless is the "fast" brushless as there all just as fast. and has been more fairer than ever.

i think so long as its a 13.5t bonded, sintered, 13mm sintered who cares, then run it in 13.5t class (or stock class if your club allows)
You got a point with the fact the are many tricks to improve performance on a stock motor which a tuner is not gonna give up , what tricks are out there for brushless motors besides timing and the fact there is no brushes to change or springs combination to play with , rules to follow , well another story , lets put it this way , bone stock 27t no magnets zapped and only one brush combination or certain brushes allowed and springs , will that be bashing or racing
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Old 12-08-2007, 03:33 PM   #4
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outside of hand wound 19 turns

list all of the different brand 19 turn motors we used.

integy
trinity
checkpoint

stock
trinity
integy


they may have had different labels but they were all the same can and end bell.

why do we need to go out and buy a dozen different brushless motors at 85.00 a pop?
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Old 12-08-2007, 05:16 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by syndr0me View Post
"Racing without rules is bashing."

I agree and by the way i own the rights to that quote! LOL
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Old 12-08-2007, 05:20 PM   #6
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IF 13.5 is to be the new "STOCK" standard then i would like to see them built to conform to a set of rules. Just like the ROAR stock brushed motors have for the last 20 odd years...

Until ROAR and brushless motor makers create a "STOCK BRUSHLESS" standard its very hard to evolve current stock classes to go brushless. Right now there is no restraints on COST(a roar rule) or materials or anything, the next 13.5 could be a 11.5 with a 13.5 sticker
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Old 12-08-2007, 05:33 PM   #7
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Not to start a fight but I think the rules are what gave birth to the basher.

Club racing is about practice racing. I would say in clubs on an club race the rules should and are pretty much lenient.
Not every one wants to play by the rules, its there hobby not there obsession.

Now in a sanctioned event I can see the need for uniformity. Its important to each participant that the race be fair.
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Old 12-08-2007, 05:59 PM   #8
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I agree and by the way i own the rights to that quote! LOL
I knew it came from someone on here. I think it fits perfect. :-)

Now, if this turns into another "lets make all club racing 'run what ya brung'" discussion I'm going to call you all retards and laugh behind the safety of my keyboard.
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Old 12-08-2007, 06:03 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by syndr0me View Post
Now, if this turns into another "lets make all club racing 'run what ya brung'" discussion I'm going to call you all retards and laugh behind the safety of my keyboard.
LMAO...Thats great! LOL

EA
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Old 12-08-2007, 06:26 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by syndr0me View Post
I knew it came from someone on here. I think it fits perfect. :-)

Now, if this turns into another "lets make all club racing 'run what ya brung'" discussion I'm going to call you all retards and laugh behind the safety of my keyboard.
Well bashers run what they brung where?
The largest market in RC are PLAYING in there front yard.
Why?
The front yard is free spirited.
Some times you just have to be able to play with them. It would slow down the urge for the demand of a new kit every 6 months though.


Now I am willing to except that on road is the most competitive, to the degree the racing is closer. Not by the rules, but by the simplicity of the coarse.
Its mostly for the obsessed to win crowd.
The rules force the basher to play by the rule before they are ready.
Thats a result in one more off road racer.
On road I suppose is really no place for the basher mentality.
But it could cater to the free spirited racer a little better.

Now if we don't confront these issues we may as well say the Q at hand is irrelevant.
And move on to a more fun thread like my servos are faster be cause thats what I like to run.

I would say where is the basher and where is the free spirited racer.?
I only see serious racers in on road. Thats who the rules are enforced for.
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Old 12-08-2007, 06:34 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Joel Lagace View Post
IF 13.5 is to be the new "STOCK" standard then i would like to see them built to conform to a set of rules. Just like the ROAR stock brushed motors have for the last 20 odd years...

Until ROAR and brushless motor makers create a "STOCK BRUSHLESS" standard its very hard to evolve current stock classes to go brushless. Right now there is no restraints on COST(a roar rule) or materials or anything, the next 13.5 could be a 11.5 with a 13.5 sticker
I know roar is working on the rules for 13.5 stock for 2008. We have to have rules written intelligently to control this motor class. The rules originally written in 1991 for 24* 27T Stock were a disaster. They were designed to makes motors slow down and last longer than the 36* to 45* motor we were running pre-1991 but they ended up as faster then before and before rebuildables came out they burned up even faster.
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Old 12-08-2007, 06:37 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by syndr0me View Post
"Racing without rules is bashing."

/thread

There are rules for brushed motors that are not followed. Just look at some of the current "fast" stocks and 19 turns that don't meet the minimum wire length. Or you can look at the fact that some motors don't meet the timing rule within tolerance. And the best part is that for some reason they're approved. When the rules aren't followed that's bashing.

Do we need rules for 13.5's? Yup. But that doesn't mean that we need to limit the motor development and competition. There's a limit right now by the way, and it's the number of turns.

All they need to use is the current rules for BL motors and add the wire limits for turns and wire length. Also, they need to finally add the nonsensored motors (and the wind that most of them use) to the rules.
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Old 12-08-2007, 06:43 PM   #13
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Oh, and for what it's worth, we need to set-up a slow class for the new guys. 17.5 or even slower. I've watched too many new people at the local track try to run stock and quit after two weeks because all they did was beat the crap out of their car.
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Old 12-08-2007, 08:12 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UN4RACING View Post
Well bashers run what they brung where?
The largest market in RC are PLAYING in there front yard.
Why?
The front yard is free spirited.
Some times you just have to be able to play with them. It would slow down the urge for the demand of a new kit every 6 months though.


Now I am willing to except that on road is the most competitive, to the degree the racing is closer. Not by the rules, but by the simplicity of the coarse.
Its mostly for the obsessed to win crowd.
The rules force the basher to play by the rule before they are ready.
Thats a result in one more off road racer.
On road I suppose is really no place for the basher mentality.
But it could cater to the free spirited racer a little better.

Now if we don't confront these issues we may as well say the Q at hand is irrelevant.
And move on to a more fun thread like my servos are faster be cause thats what I like to run.

I would say where is the basher and where is the free spirited racer.?
I only see serious racers in on road. Thats who the rules are enforced for.
We miss you X. I've only got a few weeks of racing left before moving out of state. You should come by and say "hi" sometime.

A bunch of us have made things more lighthearted by going to all 13.5's with rubber tires. It's been a lot less stressful, and more fun and smiles than I've ever had racing. We still have loose rules (spec tires, motors, etc.) but it's not nearly as intense as the foams were. There's definitely something to the idea of balancing things to appease the serious racer and competitive amateur so they can battle in the clubs without too much anxiety. Nobody is talking about batteries and motors, it's all about setup and making the cars grip in low-traction.
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Old 12-08-2007, 08:41 PM   #15
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Do we need rules for 13.5's? Yup. But that doesn't mean that we need to limit the motor development and competition. There's a limit right now by the way, and it's the number of turns.

.

YES U MUST LIMIT DEVELOPMENT... in a stock class. In mod have at it. Mod is practically open. But to have stock racing you must limit development, i always hate when guys(not u, people in general) race stock also want to have technology advancements the moment they come out. Stock is about limitations. Brushless mod is not up for debate. Stock brushless is, and it needs limitations and price caps in place in order to allow stock to continue on as a slower alternative and cheaper alternative to mod racing.
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