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Old 12-02-2007, 08:34 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by ApexSpeed View Post
Not necessarily. MIP produced a gear diff unit for their RC10 pre-"Stealth" gearbox about 20 years ago, and they are fairly light and very reasonable for electric cars. IMO, they were the best diffs ever made for dirt oval racing. Freer and smoother than any ball diff I have ever built, and zero slip. Who says they'd need to be filled with fluid to work properly?

It CAN be done—it's been done already. With the materials and manufacturing technology we have today, there is no reason why it couldn't be an option.

There is one in this car...
Damn I had one of those transmissions back in the day and a few of those old Checkpoints. Damn those motors where fast back then to.
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Old 12-02-2007, 08:48 AM   #17
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Not to get off topic but check out that vintage Checkpoint motor with the aluminim endbell. cool!
Sidebar... dig this. Just a few.


On topic. Gear diffs =
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Old 12-02-2007, 09:13 AM   #18
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Sidebar... dig this. Just a few.


On topic. Gear diffs =
WOW You are really bringing me back!!! Those were the days when I was first bit by the RC bug. I was 15 and now I'm 35 My friend had a gold tub RC10 with the black and gold labeled Checpoint just like that. I had a Twister motor just like the one you have ! I always want a Cam motor...I used to think they looked cool


OK back on topic....
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Old 12-02-2007, 09:23 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by ApexSpeed View Post
Not necessarily. MIP produced a gear diff unit for their RC10 pre-"Stealth" gearbox about 20 years ago, and they are fairly light and very reasonable for electric cars. IMO, they were the best diffs ever made for dirt oval racing. Freer and smoother than any ball diff I have ever built, and zero slip. Who says they'd need to be filled with fluid to work properly?

It CAN be done—it's been done already. With the materials and manufacturing technology we have today, there is no reason why it couldn't be an option.

There is one in this car...
An open gear diff has ZERO limited slip effect. If one wheel loses traction that end of the car loses all forward drive. That slows you down a lot. That is why no one that was fast at the time used the MIP gear diff and it was discontinued.

I run an Mi3 and I have friends that run everything else so I have seen this first hand.

The oils (even really light oils) in nitro gear diffs keep some drive going to the loaded wheel.

I don't know why this thread is still alive. All of the current sedans have awesome ball diffs (except the Cyclone) that last forever if built properly and put in a car with a decent setup that does not lift wheels all the time.
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Old 12-02-2007, 09:31 AM   #20
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An open gear diff has ZERO limited slip effect. If one wheel loses traction that end of the car loses all forward drive. That slows you down a lot. That is why no one that was fast at the time used the MIP gear diff and it was discontinued.
Says you. Many of the fastest dirt oval racers in the country used and coveted that diff for a long time. It was discontinued because it wore out without any slip, it was costly to replace/repair, and you could build and service a cheap ball diff for a lot less money than produce and manufacture tiny hardened spider gears and complex center gears.

Just because you don't think it's a reasonable idea doesn't mean it isn't worth pursuing, Adrian. I suppose everyone should just stop developing everything because it's already been done before, and a better mouse trap can't be made.


Geesh.
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Old 12-02-2007, 09:32 AM   #21
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Its alive because gear diffs offer a level of tuning accuracy and consistency that ball diffs do not. Plus the average racer would be able to more closely apply a "pro" setup to their car. With ball diffs that part is all guesswork.
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Old 12-02-2007, 09:50 AM   #22
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It has been done many times but to get the full benefit from a gear diff,you want to tune with fluids like you do in 1/10th and 1/8th nitro. You can really manipulate the handling of a car this way. I am all for trying it out and to be honest,they will function better. I am just not sure how hard it would be to market being that it will need to be beefed up like a 1/10th nitro diff to handle the pressure of thick fluids

Surely there is someway of using Delrin or Nylon (or some 'self lubricating' type) gears in a sealed unit.
Perhaps a sprung pair of gears with something behind them for the spring to push them against, a bit like a full size LSD or Posi-traction?

No need for oil, the only metal part 'inside' would be the spring.

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Old 12-02-2007, 09:53 AM   #23
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This would be a great idea seeing how the mod guys burn out diffs with there brushless setups
Id go for reliability any day and the fluid filled gear diffs give you a good consistent feel and tunability that is hard to get from a ball diff.
The weight is so small a difference but the benefits would be much more especially with the power of brushless and new battery technology etc....
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Old 12-02-2007, 09:56 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by Skiddins View Post
Surely there is someway of using Delrin or Nylon (or some 'self lubricating' type) gears in a sealed unit.
Perhaps a sprung pair of gears with something behind them for the spring to push them against, a bit like a full size LSD or Posi-traction?

No need for oil, the only metal part 'inside' would be the spring.

Skiddins
You could exactly that with various thickness orings behind the bevel gears in current gear diffs just replace them regularly or get teflon shims of diffferent thicknesses made up for them.
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Old 12-02-2007, 10:34 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skiddins View Post
Surely there is someway of using Delrin or Nylon (or some 'self lubricating' type) gears in a sealed unit.
Perhaps a sprung pair of gears with something behind them for the spring to push them against, a bit like a full size LSD or Posi-traction?

No need for oil, the only metal part 'inside' would be the spring.

Skiddins

THe purpose of the fluids is not for lubrication. What it is for is controling the traction at each given end of the car. Harder up front oil will yield more on power steering as like a spool. It is really nice to have. I would love to see it happen. If everyone would buy it, I think it would be better than a ball diff. The ball diff is limited to the amount of adjustment you have as opposed to a gear diff. Back in the day of the old blackfoot,frog and cars of such had weak gear diffs. You take a Xray NT1 style gear diff and that would be DIALED!!!
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Old 12-02-2007, 10:35 AM   #26
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The sweet thing about using oils is that you can rebuild your diff 1 time a year if you like. They last really long.
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Old 12-02-2007, 11:18 AM   #27
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I used the gear diff last weekend at the Xceed Race in the Netherlands.
Drives very well and no need to rebuild.
Times were faster with the Gear Diff.

Some other Serpent Drivers used it.. everyone with different thickness oil preferred to their driving


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Old 12-02-2007, 11:37 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by protc3 View Post
THe purpose of the fluids is not for lubrication. What it is for is controling the traction at each given end of the car.

I understand exactly what your saying , I used to run 1/8 Buggies.

Perhaps the spring inside could be changed for different tensions?

Maybe this helps illustrate what I mean a bit more;


I'd certainly get a geared diff is one was available for the Mi3 and play around with it to see what a difference it made.

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Old 12-02-2007, 11:45 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by Skiddins View Post
I understand exactly what your saying , I used to run 1/8 Buggies.

Perhaps the spring inside could be changed for different tensions?

Maybe this helps illustrate what I mean a bit more;


I'd certainly get a geared diff is one was available for the Mi3 and play around with it to see what a difference it made.

Skiddins

Isnt that a torsion diff?
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Old 12-02-2007, 12:11 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by Skiddins View Post
My Mi3 diffs;

HD Spool - 21.3g
Ball Diff - 24.3g
One Way - 27.5g

Over 6g difference between a spool (the heavy duty one) and the One-way, and no-one bothers to think about the difference in weight between those two when setting up their car.

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Good point Skidmar...oops, I mean Skiddins j/k
I would definitely be willing to have something like this for my MI3. This would take ALOT of the mysticism out of the diff-building process. I couldn't care less about the drivetrain being 7-10grams heavier. With the power of Brushless motors coupled with Lipo.....c'mon
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