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Old 11-30-2007, 10:25 AM   #76
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Touring car could get really popular again if it were back to highly visable parking lot racing with realistically priced cars. There is no 'magic' set of rules that are going to increase the popularity.
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Old 11-30-2007, 10:51 AM   #77
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What's becoming popular (again) around here is 5th scale... 1 tank of gasoline lasts you 40 minutes, more than enough power (even with a stock G230) to do burnouts or drift the car around corners, can be used on almost any parking lot... Realistic Bodies with realistic wheelbases, You can't put a 911 body on a long chassis, it won't fit... No body has any real aerodynamic difference over another... And the biggest reason... For $600 (you can't even set up a 1/10 TC for that) you can get a knock off of the more expensive cars that with the addition of a spring and oil selection can be just as competitive as the more expensive cars in the right hands, it's all about the driver....

I'm going to run a little 12th scale after the new year but I'm pretty much done with 1/10 TC and EP in general...

You need to put the TC's back into the parking lot, that's where they started...
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Old 11-30-2007, 11:18 AM   #78
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Bluey_74 - We have talked about testing a motor with smaller dimensions to allow better packaging in reguards to chassis design/development. I think we can achieve similar output from a smaller package which would really open up a lot of room for further layouts as of course it would greatly reduce the weight of the heaviest or 2nd heaviest item in the car....

1/8 Buggies are the most popular in the industry why?? Simple - Walk into any hobby shop and what do you see the most of?? Open a RCCA or any magazine?? The consumers are pushed to this from the word go. Not saying that TC would be as large if it was crammed down the throats of customers when they walk in the door but I think it would be a bit different.

Also, think about driving a 1/8 buggy - Lap times at least 20-45 seconds a lap, low traction, wide lanes, tubes for barriers - It's a very forgiving situation to race in. Top speeds are in the 30mph range (again, on dirt). Even rubber tire TC's ran 50+mph this year at the Reedy Race..... Add to that, you can blast a 1/8 buggy anywhere and now the TC's are more resembling pan cars with all the aluminum and carbon fiber - who wants to do anything with them but race on a perfectly prepared track??
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Old 11-30-2007, 01:27 PM   #79
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when were 1/8th on roads, 1/10th 4wd not run in dirt & asphalt? Are these cars not made out of the same materials that tcs today are made out of? I believe that parking lot racing is the best way to tcs to grow today as well. Parking lots will provide inconsitant conditions which are easily achieved indoor. When you run indoor you can expect your car to always pretty much run the same once you find your setup. However, in parking lot racing you actually have to have a sense for throtle control out of corners at times.
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Old 11-30-2007, 02:48 PM   #80
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1/10 electric TC's are treading into Formula 1 territory.

If you look at the r/c cars from all the different teams, they all look very similar. Without the paint on them, it's hard to tell the difference between a Ferrari F1 and a Honda F1.

Both games are becoming very elitist. In F1, you need at least 50 million to run a car for 1 season. They spend $1200 for a single use wheel lock, and go through 1600 of them in a season. F1 used to build a new motor ($$$$) for each race. In r/c, I see guys spending tons on stuff like servos with a slightly faster response time, new foams & brushes for each heat, the list goes on.

F1 tech has hit a barrier. They can make cars faster, and handle even better, but they have one problem holding them back... human drivers. Human reaction times, information processing, and physical endurance are pushed to the limits in today's F1. There are only a Handful of Kimis, Schumachers and Hamiltons that can push F1's to the limit now. If they make the cars faster, they effectively narrow the field of players, as teams just can't keep up and drivers die while trying to. R/C touring cars are approaching this barrier. Make them faster with tighter handling and watch the field narrow. Most will just not be able to do what the car is capable of. It's already the same small handful of winners each year in F1 and 1/10 on road. Bigger performance will just eliminate more people's chances of scoring a podium visit.

What F1 has done is put in restrictions (somewhat). Engines must be used for 2 races. Your car must have a minimum ground clearance. Your fuel has temperature restrictions. No more than 8 cylinders for the engines. Everyone has the same tires to choose from. This keeps the field broad enough to let a few more drivers be competitive. It also keeps the speeds down to make things a bit safer. It also makes racing a car a compliance nightmare. The F1 rules read more like intercontinental trade agreements written by teams of lawyers. Most F1 teams have several team members just to make sure they are following the rules; and several more to try and find loopholes or ways around them. Is this the way r/c touring should go? I hope not. There are no safety concerns to speak of, and I think there is still vast room for improvement, car-wise. The R&D money spent by the racing r/c companies is getting considerable and going up all the time. This has brought unbelievable performance to casual r/c'ers. Let them keep trying to do more. I'll never be able to drive a 1:1 car like Schumacher, and I'll never be able to drive a 1:10 car like Moore. But I still love to see what they can do. Let them do it. Don't restrict.
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Old 11-30-2007, 02:56 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by bakaguyjean View Post

So here are some new touring car rules for everybody.

1.Body must be a real car. No Stratus blobs,if you find a Stratus body that isnt a blob,then it must have a baby on board sticker in the rear window
2. No neon paint jobs, Sorry but the guy at the flea market cant airbrush your bodies anymore.
3. No dish wheels,Unless you body is a Salt flats racer.
4. Cars must have a driver,even lexan ones are ok.
5. you can only run the Motor,battery comb,or lower, of the guy setting to the right of you in the pits.Unless you are driveing faster than him allready.then you must refer to the guy to the left of you,unless you are faster than this guy also.In this event you must pack up and go home.As you have all ready won. This saves time as there isnt any reason to to waste all day waiting to run a five minute race just to find out you are the winner any way.
Rule number 5 is just for the serious racers,that have sponcers.

Are you communist? when you find one person other than yourself that would actually go by these rules, let us know
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Old 11-30-2007, 03:01 PM   #82
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good idea......or how about some type of handout regulator that limits volts to 6v even with your fully charged zapped, punched, pushed, matched 7.2v pack...........would level the field.....batteries would be taken out of the equation and there woukld be no advantage to charging your batteries at 1000 amps.........regulator would allow only so many amps to be drawn?.....i race nitro, got tired of the battery race...........
Adrian might remember a similar idea from a year or so ago, and some ESC company piped up that whatever it was would be the same size as the SPEEDO, as it needs to dissipate HUGE amounts of current. Making it largely ineffective, expensive, and hard to install.

My take on it is that we are not at any kind of barrier. Until everybody is running the same speed and same lap times, and that will never happen.

Also, I don't see the 400 guys at our local Motocross event complaining about expense and the noobs, and they forked over $7,000-$15,000 to be there. AND, that bike (or quad) is worth 1/2 that in a year.

RC racing is relatively inexpensive, it's a person's ego that effects the budget.

Equipment has never been better. I am pretty confident that a competent driver like Blackstock, Burch, Cyrul, could take the complete car, motor, radio, batterys of the last place qualifier at most events, tweak it to their liking, and still very likely put it in the show.

We are at a good point in our industry, it's exciting! And the only barrier would be ourselves (relative to on-track performance).

Last edited by Bob-Stormer; 11-30-2007 at 03:44 PM.
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Old 11-30-2007, 03:22 PM   #83
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Guys, perhaps you need to take a step back and think about why 1/8th scale buggy is the most popular class in all of r/c. Heres a hint, it has something to due with pit time. 1/8th scale buggies are bullet proof, you have unlimited power, & you have long run times. Li//bl can offer all of this. A 10kmah 2s lipo will weigh the same as any 6cell stick your using today. Oh yeah, there should not be multiple classes. There should only be li//bl sportsman & li//bl pro. All classes are any battery & motor config in the current weight & dimension specs. This will allow people to run setups that are too fast. This means that mod will become a true spec class and there will no longer be unfair advantages. Perhaps the rules are what is really hurting racing. In the end more track time is the ultimate goal. If you think bullet proof cars are going to result in less money then just take a look at 1/8th scale and tell me how little money that market is generating.
How is 1/8 on road doing? There is a fundamental difference offroad vs. onroad. If it merely meant unlimited power was the answer to our problems, 1/8 on road would be as out of control popular as you're saying offroad is.
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Old 11-30-2007, 05:07 PM   #84
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How is 1/8 on road doing? There is a fundamental difference offroad vs. onroad. If it merely meant unlimited power was the answer to our problems, 1/8 on road would be as out of control popular as you're saying offroad is.
1/8 on road is at the barrier
For what I see here most of drivers went to other scales 1/5 or 1/10 nitro. For what the guys told me the costs of 1/8 on road are stupid (900 euros for an engine for example) the tyres wear fast and are expensive.
Same emotion driving 1/10 Nitro for half the price?

But I have the ideia that are not the prices that are holding electrics back. At the end 1/10 electric are still the cheapest car racing and with the best value/performance in modified if we put lipo and brushless.
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Old 11-30-2007, 08:29 PM   #85
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I left this hobby about 5 years ago and I never expected to see touring cars to take such a dump. When I left there were 4x the touring car racers in my area that there are now. It was a class that wasn't ruled by the elite. You ran purples and plaids with stock motors and 3000mah packs and the cars were drivable even by newer racers. Now with a 13.5 and a lipo I feel like I am running mod. The cars have way more corner speed since the tires are softer and the cars suspensions allow them to work without traction rolling and the motors are faster. I think that touring cars need to start pushing a 21.5 lipo class any chassis and tire. There needs to be a stock class again.

Oval is gaining popularity since they have fully adapted to brushless. Once touring cars fully switch over and we come up with a real stock class again, I think you will see an increase in touring cars. Something where it is slow enough it splits the classes and we have the fast guys (or the big spenders) in mod and the normal drivers (budget) in stock. Slowing down the cars is the only way I see the class growing again.
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Old 11-30-2007, 08:32 PM   #86
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Are you communist? when you find one person other than yourself that would actually go by these rules, let us know
Pretty much all of the none National TC racing here in Japan,uses rules like this. The land where RC cars are on every corner. Sorry but the idea works here. Might be a reason why RC cars are popular here.
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Old 11-30-2007, 08:33 PM   #87
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look at lap times at the fixed tracks. the best lap times have barely moved... most of the time gained is in slightly faster motors, better tires, better batteries. not much in chassis development.
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Old 11-30-2007, 09:42 PM   #88
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1/8 on road is at the barrier
For what I see here most of drivers went to other scales 1/5 or 1/10 nitro. For what the guys told me the costs of 1/8 on road are stupid (900 euros for an engine for example) the tyres wear fast and are expensive.
Same emotion driving 1/10 Nitro for half the price?

But I have the ideia that are not the prices that are holding electrics back. At the end 1/10 electric are still the cheapest car racing and with the best value/performance in modified if we put lipo and brushless.
5th scale tires run me about 130 for a set of 4 but I get barely any wear on a race weekend... For parking lot racing I'll run them till the belts start showing, they actually kind of get better when they become slicks... Just have to watch how many heat cycles they've been through... The initial outlay is more but the cost to run over a year is less than 8th scale or even 10th scale...
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Old 12-04-2007, 08:52 AM   #89
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Originally Posted by 1fastdude View Post
You all know that the faster the RC cars get the slower we will be able to recruit new people/racers to this fantastic hobby!!!

Food for thought

I agree with this completely. If manufacturers could now instead focus on making this new technology more affordable instead of improving I wouldnt have lost a good friend to nitro(who is now out of the hobby!!). The RTR XXX-s kit with the novak BL is the only fast electric kit in town that I was able to find...
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Old 12-04-2007, 09:21 AM   #90
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[QUOTE=RussB;3919951]i believe you mean the layout yokomo came out with on the MR4-TC? tamiya was still prototyping the 414x at the time and that car had saddle packs.

Actually, the basic design was around before the MR4TC. Schumacher used the batteries all down the side in the SST98.
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