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Old 11-29-2007, 08:37 AM   #16
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Even though we all want to go faster (at least on some level everyone is a speed demon) as Allan pointed out, sometimes going "quicker" is a better measure of how we're doing.

With the advent of brushless technology, I'm thinking it should be possible to program a spec motor/esc combination that gives a completely level playing field. With batteries having enough capacity to finish a race and then some, the esc would limit voltage going to the motor, current, and acceleration. This would mean the motors would run the same top rpm and have the same acceleration curves. This would bring racing back to the driver, setup, etc.

OK, granted, I've just realized that this post may be taking us slightly off topic, but I believe Allan's point is extremely valid. Why not stop looking at how to go faster, but how to have great races and improve our skills before we start flying down the track in a blur?
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Old 11-29-2007, 08:51 AM   #17
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Default novak brushless 3.5 for everyone

If tc went to novak 3.5 brushless, no one would look for more power, ever.

Unfortunately, speed is what gets most racers into the hobby. The first question any spectator asks is "how fast will it go" then "how much does it cost." In high dollar tc, the first question brings them in, the second makes them reconsider.

Classes were started to seperate different types of cars, try to level the playing field, and to give a racer a path to progress along. Unfortunately, there is no longer a path to progress along because no one wants to leave their comfort zone.

Tinkering with the current 415 layout may never stop. The real question to ask is if r/c manufacturers are making changes to improve the cars substantially, or to sell more kits. Unless tamiya/xray/ etc are non-profit research companies, the answers are obvious.

Speed is not what is hurting the hobby; racing getting too serious, costing too much, and taking too much time is what is hurting the hobby.
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Old 11-29-2007, 08:56 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by maverickalpha View Post
Even though we all want to go faster (at least on some level everyone is a speed demon) as Allan pointed out, sometimes going "quicker" is a better measure of how we're doing.

With the advent of brushless technology, I'm thinking it should be possible to program a spec motor/esc combination that gives a completely level playing field. With batteries having enough capacity to finish a race and then some, the esc would limit voltage going to the motor, current, and acceleration. This would mean the motors would run the same top rpm and have the same acceleration curves. This would bring racing back to the driver, setup, etc.

OK, granted, I've just realized that this post may be taking us slightly off topic, but I believe Allan's point is extremely valid. Why not stop looking at how to go faster, but how to have great races and improve our skills before we start flying down the track in a blur?
I think this is spot on topic...

Funny you should mention a widgit to level the playing field. I have been in casual contact with Castle Creations on an inline plug-in that I thought would do just that. In nitro onroad, I use a Novak regulator to bring down a lipo to the necessary 6v.

Imagine a widgit that can be installed inline between speed control and motor to regulate the amperage/voltage/power. It could be about the size of a PT. Now, Any motor, Any speed control can be used in ANY class. Tech would just look at the regulator to verify the appropriate class being run.

This, in a perfect RC world.
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Old 11-29-2007, 10:12 AM   #19
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It could be about the size of a PT. Now, Any motor, Any speed control can be used in ANY class. Tech would just look at the regulator to verify the appropriate class being run.

This, in a perfect RC world.
As long as were racing.... I can make my regulator faster then your regulator
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Old 11-29-2007, 10:15 AM   #20
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Speed is not what is hurting the hobby; racing getting too serious, costing too much, and taking too much time is what is hurting the hobby.
This is true. People get too damn serious. Is it hard to imagine this stuff not being fun for a new kid on a budget?
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Old 11-29-2007, 10:32 AM   #21
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If you want to know what most racers think about slowing down do a search for the 4 or 5 cell threads a year ago. Guys were flipping out about how 4-5 cell racing would slow us down and kill racing. As it turns out the Mod guys are faster with 5 cells than 6 cells!

I think we need to slow down but its really hard to do that. 4-5 cell is not the answer as LiPo will take over this year and that is 7.4v no matter what.

As far as budget racing cars....I have been racing for 20 years and I have seen them come on go.

Bolink Legends...gone.
AE TC3 Racer Kit...gone.
Trinity T-Spec...gone.

The truth is no one wants to race a budget car. Everyone wants the fully tricked out team rig. Thats just reality.

Xray T2 Fk07's outsell T2R's everywhere.
HB Cyclones outsell the cheaper plastic Cyclones everywhere.

Tamiya, HPI and Kyosho have tried to get their own budget racing series going but only Tamiya TCS has made it and even TCS is only a tiny part of world R/C racing.

Even if you start out cheap in a year or two racers start hopping their cars up and it gets technical and un-fun.

Sedans used to be a lot of fun. Now it so competative that you really have to be sharp about setup and motor and battery cars to win even at club races.
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Old 11-29-2007, 10:45 AM   #22
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Don't forget tamiya's line of entry level TC like the TT01, TA05. Tamiya tried several different layouts, but it seems that the 415 one is race proven. The 416 is pretty much the same deal with updated parts. The scary part about tamiya is, you can buy a TA05, and spend so much money on hop-ups. I spent more money on that car than I did on my TA05MS. Well, I guess that's why they are so successful.

Aside from that, I think TC is at it's peak in terms of current design. I guess it is like F1, where the general design has not changed for a long time, just refinements. Thus the 416 didn't go thru a drastic change. If it works, don't fix it.
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Old 11-29-2007, 10:49 AM   #23
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Adrian.

All I can say is...."TRANS AM CLASS" !!!

4 cells, musclecar bodies, realistic wheels and tires, 27T motors. Might be the funnest 4WD TC class ever. It's getting pretty big in the WI/IL area and will probably become a staple class around here. I don't care what anyone says but the TCs look way better with realistic wheels and tires. They are 200mm bodies but they fill out nicely with the wider wheels.

Forget pushing the limits. We need to get back to just having fun which this class is totally about.

http://rctech.net/forum/showpost.php...&postcount=107
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Old 11-29-2007, 11:25 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by convikt View Post
didnt the pro3 have 3 belts, or was it 2?
The pro3 had 2 belts.

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Old 11-29-2007, 11:39 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrianM View Post
Even if you start out cheap in a year or two racers start hopping their cars up and it gets technical and un-fun.

Sedans used to be a lot of fun. Now it so competative that you really have to be sharp about setup and motor and battery cars to win even at club races.
Granted there are the weird ones like me who enjoy the technical part.

Also no matter what the guys who are good at the motors/batt/car setup are going to win. I don't care what we race those are the guys will rise to the top! Thats just the way racing works.. To go fast it takes alot of work.
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Old 11-29-2007, 12:14 PM   #26
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Are we at the barrier in electric touring cars where theres nothing more that can be introduced that will noticeably increase speed and handling in modern day touring cars? Is Brushed and brushless at there limits?
Probably one of greatest drivers to ever hit the track said,

"On a given day, a given circumstance, you think you have a limit. And you then go for this limit and you touch this limit, and you think, 'Okay, this is the limit.' As soon as you touch this limit, something happens and you suddenly can go a little bit further. With your mind power, your determination, your instinct, and the experience as well, you can fly very high." --Ayrton Senna

The same is true for our any scale of racing or for that matter about anything in life. I remember reading once that people once thought that going over 35mph in a horse drawn buggy would surely kill a man.
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Old 11-29-2007, 12:31 PM   #27
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Are we at the barrier in electric touring cars where theres nothing more that can be introduced that will noticeably increase speed and handling in modern day touring cars? Is Brushed and brushless at there limits?
i don't think we are at the barrier of cars and bats etc, but more of a barrier of what people are willing to spend . it gets old buying the new gretest thang for it to be out of date next year.
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Old 11-29-2007, 12:58 PM   #28
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Are we at the barrier in electric touring cars where theres nothing more that can be introduced that will noticeably increase speed and handling in modern day touring cars? Is Brushed and brushless at there limits?
...........how about a carbon fiber chassis with built in lipo battery sandwiched between layers?............Super low cg.........
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Old 11-29-2007, 01:05 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by maverickalpha View Post
.

With batteries having enough capacity to finish a race and then some, the esc would limit voltage going to the motor, current, and acceleration. This would mean the motors would run the same top rpm and have the same acceleration curves. This would bring racing back to the driver, setup, etc.

?
good idea......or how about some type of handout regulator that limits volts to 6v even with your fully charged zapped, punched, pushed, matched 7.2v pack...........would level the field.....batteries would be taken out of the equation and there woukld be no advantage to charging your batteries at 1000 amps.........regulator would allow only so many amps to be drawn?.....i race nitro, got tired of the battery race...........
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Old 11-29-2007, 01:14 PM   #30
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Also no matter what the guys who are good at the motors/batt/car setup are going to win. I don't care what we race those are the guys will rise to the top! Thats just the way racing works.. To go fast it takes alot of work.
Well said
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