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Old 11-28-2007, 10:30 AM   #1
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Default Novak 13.5 vs. 27t brushed motor

Well our club has decided allow BL set-ups. So lets say there are 2 people on the track that have the same exact set-up.
So here's the scenerio:
1 person decides to put in the BL set-up and the other doesnt.
Will the BL be any faster?

The way I see it maintenance is the biggest advantage and no speed differences in the 2 b/c Novak had to make this set-up identicle to a 27t brushed motor, right?

thanks
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Old 11-28-2007, 10:38 AM   #2
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Default Our Expierence....

Our track made this move partialy last year, and implimented it fully this year. What we've found is:

13.5 vs. 27T brushed in our TC class and Stadium truck class (T4's, xxxts and such on a carpted track with carpeted jumps) are the same.

However....

12th scale not so much.

17.5 vs. 27T brushed in 12th scale is very competitive.

Hope this helps.

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Old 11-28-2007, 10:51 AM   #3
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Its funny that you have mentioned 1/12 scale b/c this is the class in question.
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Old 11-28-2007, 10:54 AM   #4
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they are no where close in either class. the 13.5 has way more punch out of the corners and way more top end. The are closer to an average 19turn. I think most track has the same 13.5/stock 27turn class. they are the closest you can get at this point. but I guarantee you that you get an average to above average racer running a 13.5 and the "fast" guy run the 27t, and it will be a very close race.
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Old 11-28-2007, 10:57 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by portyansky View Post
Novak had to make this set-up identicle to a 27t brushed motor, right?
Not exactly. I thank the goal was to develop a BL motor that was close to a 27T, which is a 13.5. BUT a 13.5 BL with a sintered rotor can be geared to give faster laptimes than a 27T motor. Also, a BL motor will be more consistent than a 27T from start to end, so taking the same driver and car and swapping back and forth, the 13.5 will be faster.
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Old 11-28-2007, 10:58 AM   #6
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you get more runtime out of a brushless motor, so gear to runtime instead of heat
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Old 11-28-2007, 11:03 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acyrier View Post

12th scale not so much.

17.5 vs. 27T brushed in 12th scale is very competitive.

Hope this helps.

Aaron
www.michianarc.com

So then the 17.5 is more compareable?
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Old 11-28-2007, 11:10 AM   #8
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In our expierence..yes.

Now that being said... I should also point out our track is full of "club" racers not professional racers, and maybe that's why we don't see a huge difference between the 2 as "thisisgroup" has mentioned. "Faster out of corners..more top end"... This is probably true, but our track is fairly small (36x60) and most turns are 180 or 90 turns so I'm not sure the brushless motors are seeing their top end.

Most guys are switching to the 13.5 (in the TC and stadium truck class) or the 17.5 in the 12th class...not becuase they are getting beat, but for the simplicity of little maintanance of a brushless vs. the work it takes to keep a brushed motor in tip top shape.

Currently, I'm running a LRP 13.5 (with sintered rotor) in the staduim truck. I "think" I have the fastest truck out there, but I did as well when I had an axiom CO2 so I havn't noticed a difference going from one to the other with the exception of no maintanance. But as I mentioned earlier, I'm not a professional, but a "club level" racer.
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Old 11-28-2007, 11:20 AM   #9
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Thanks for that info.
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Old 11-28-2007, 11:31 AM   #10
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A well tuned 27T brushed motor generates around 130 Watts of power at 7.2V.
A Novak 13.5 brushless with sintered rotor produces 195 Watts of power at 7.2V.

Anyone who thinks these motors produce the same lap times hasn't learned how to gear the 13.5 brushless motors. They have much more torque, and require approximately 10-20 teeth more gear than a 27T. If you haven't put a smaller spur gear in, you probably haven't asked your 13.5 to start working.

If you have truly geared the 13.5 properly, and the track times are still the same, then it means the track can't handle the extra power being layed down. In other words, you've reached a point where even a modified motor wouldn't help lap times.
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Old 11-28-2007, 11:41 AM   #11
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I agree w/that as well...track size does make a difference...as well as it's "tighness" Our lanes are generally 7-8ft wide with the exception of the straight.
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Old 11-28-2007, 11:46 AM   #12
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now with all this said, does all of this apply if you are running nimh or lipos
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Old 11-28-2007, 12:00 PM   #13
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well...this is new for us this year...

1st..12th scale..as far as I know, nobody is using lipo's in a 12th scale car as they don't fit. (main stream ones anyway)

in our TC and stadium truck class....
Minimum weight limit applies if a "lipo" guy has to add weight to his car to make minimum weight... fair game.

I don't run lipo so I can't say from expierence..but from the guys that do run it at our place..this is what's being said...

Nimh have more punch at the beginning but kinda taper off as time goes on. Lipo, there is not much perforance difference from the beginning to the end of the race...or..it's not as pronounced.

Overall, we have found the racing to be pretty competitive mixing the 4 technologies together with-out too much complaining.
(mixing lipo/nimh/brushed/brushless)

As a track owner, it's what we had to do to keep the most people happy..adapt with the times and waht the guys want to run. we've tried to do what we can to make it fair for everybody, and not say..well..you can run this, but can't run that.

If we were to do that, we would be diluting the compeition..meaning...let's say you have 12 guys running TC...well.... if you want to have a 13.5 class..and a stock class...now maybe you have 6 and 6....then if you break-up lipo vs. nhmh...then where ya at. so we've tried ot match up what is close. may not be exact, but close.

it's a goofy time for racing right now w/all these things on the table. I think the main thing is to be flexible and at the same time fair.

Hope this helps.
Aaron
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Old 11-28-2007, 12:07 PM   #14
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Thanks Aaron, you have brought up many valid points. Right now we are gonna have a guy guinee pig it to see if there is a big advantage or not. I will report back here with the info next wednesday since we race on Tuesday nights.
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Old 11-28-2007, 12:07 PM   #15
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last night on a big track a brushed guy with lipo beat a 13.5 with nimh so they are close closer than a 17.5 and stock

watched the 17.5 class at a brl race and they are not much more than a 21st century 540 silver can motor

just my .02 cents

Last edited by twistedone; 11-28-2007 at 12:23 PM.
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