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Old 11-29-2007, 12:09 PM   #106
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My ROAR membership has expired.
I can do free lipo consulting in return for a membership renewal.
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Old 11-29-2007, 12:29 PM   #107
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Power tools don't use lipos. Power tools use a123 cells. They are a lithium ion based cell that has a great venting system & it has characteristics which don't cause it to go up in flames if its hard metal shell is punctured. There is not a need to put plastic cases on lipos. These lithium ion cells can be charged in 15 minutes under factory specs as well, they get my vote for the best cells out there.
You guys need to stop worrying about what roar thinks and run what you want to run. Take a look at the east coast li//bl truck series. It grew from a local club thing & now there are 50+ entrants at all of their east coast series events in the class. To be honest, I would much rather run li//bl at race day then run mod. If the race director doesn't want to give out a $5 trophy to the guy who spent $1000 less on his setup then I will gladly race & not accept the $5 trophy.
If you guys want to complain about how lipos could be unfair then please tell me that when trinity matches 20,000 cells & they pick out the 200 best cells for their drivers to use that it is fair for you to race against them. With lipos they all have the same voltage. If the guy next to you is going faster then run the same motor he is running & stop whining, its a $70 motor that will last you through 4 more updates to your xray, and not a one in 400 battery pack that will only last 3 races because he charged it at a 10 amp rate that is causing him to go faster then you. This is the reason tc is dying in popularity.
The common person can't afford to race w/ racer x and his super battery pack. Lipos & bl motors will allow the common racer to run the fastest mod on the track every single week for under $400 invested in a motor / esc / battery. In the end large events, fast speeds, & long run times draw people to the hobby. When everyone runs in the same class w/ equal gear, budget minded electronics, long mains, & blazing fast motors it will help to create the initial spark that the hobby is pretty cool. If you enter the hobby on a budget w/ todays rules you will not have an equal setup and it will frustrate you that you just spent $500 on a toy car that is still too slow to compete.
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Old 11-29-2007, 12:38 PM   #108
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Originally Posted by linger View Post
My ROAR membership has expired.
I can do free lipo consulting in return for a membership renewal.
Left all your money in that Japanese bath house, did ya?

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Old 11-29-2007, 12:40 PM   #109
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You do realize that how LIPOs are charged it's really not possible to charge at an unsafe level. The chargers charge at CA/CV...constant amp charge, and then a constant voltage.
How about if your charger allows you to charge a 3200 LiPo with a 5400 NiMh profile? I'm not gonna try it to completion, but I know that my Orion Advantage will charge my LiPo using that profile.

Only trying to uncover all the possible LiPo safety issues so a reasonable set of rules can be established for their use in surface racing. Personally, I'll never put a brushed motor or sub-C pack in my sedan ever again.
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Old 11-29-2007, 12:43 PM   #110
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The problem is Roar cant make a rule that says people have to stop being stupid. So your still going to have things going boom.
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Old 11-29-2007, 12:53 PM   #111
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It's interesting that for the past few pages the topic of Lipo Technology seems to be on everyone's mind.

Is this really going to be the catch-all answer to improving ROAR's imagine with its membership...I doubt it.

Problem is ROAR is caught now trying to make a square peg fit into a round hole. The new technology (ie: brushless / lipo systems) are so different compared to what we've been using for the past 15+ years that ROAR needs to re-write the rules to fairly accommodate the differences. It appears to be unreasonable that the two should compete against each other using the same rules. Just my opinion

On a different subject, I applaud Dawn's comments by focusing the Excom on developing an interactive "ROAR" sponsored website...where valid ROAR members can engage in open dialogue with the region directors and the region directors can post information on a newly constructed website. We need on-line voting and an emphasis to allocate more membership money to regional events.

IMO: in order for ROAR to stop the continual downward loss of membership it needs to focus it efforts of developing a grass roots race program which leads to an exceptional national level race experience.

ROAR has way too many national events each year. It wastes a ton of membership money trying to accommodate all classes of racing at a national level.

The "world championships" are every two year. I feel our nationals should be the same.

Consider this. Scheduling a national race program for each class of racing every two years. Example: On-raod nationals one year off-road nationals the next year. Alternate the two forms of racing.

This will allow ROAR to focus its efforts on hosting / overseeing fewer nationals each year, saving the membership money...the savings would be allocated to help promote regional events which must be attending in order to attend a national. (ie: more regional directors, assistance with regional budgets, perhaps more regions, credits given by ROAR to Regional Champions to attend a national event)

Just some things to think about.

For the record...I'm all for Lipo technology...nothing pisses me off more than having just purchased $200 worth of NiMH packs for one race and now finding out they won't take a charge. This is just plan bullshit and the IB guys deserve a kick in the ass for marketing an inconsistent product.
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Old 11-29-2007, 12:59 PM   #112
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Originally Posted by DerekB View Post
I like the idea of hard case LIPO but I think adding shrapnel a battery is counter productive, lol.
I have to agree.... not sure the way you put it is making this easier.. the whole shrpanel comment.. but it is the truth.

Lipo is a must in the rules for ROAR.... but how..... I don't claim to know all I need to know.. so I look for advice from the membership as to direction....
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Old 11-29-2007, 01:01 PM   #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl Giordano View Post
It's interesting that for the past few pages the topic of Lipo Technology seems to be on everyone's mind.

Is this really going to be the catch-all answer to improving ROAR's imagine with its membership...I doubt it.

Problem is ROAR is caught now trying to make a square peg fit into a round hole. The new technology (ie: brushless / lipo systems) are so different compared to what we've been using for the past 15+ years that ROAR needs to re-write the rules to fairly accommodate the differences. It appears to be unreasonable that the two should compete against each other using the same rules. Just my opinion

On a different subject, I applaud Dawn's comments by focusing the Excom on developing an interactive "ROAR" sponsored website...where valid ROAR members can engage in open dialogue with the region directors and the region directors can post information on a newly constructed website. We need on-line voting and an emphasis to allocate more membership money to regional events.

IMO: in order for ROAR to stop the continual downward loss of membership it needs to focus it efforts of developing a grass roots race program which leads to an exceptional national level race experience.

ROAR has way too many national events each year. It wastes a ton of membership money trying to accommodate all classes of racing at a national level.

The "world championships" are every two year. I feel our nationals should be the same.

Consider this. Scheduling a national race program for each class of racing every two years. Example: On-raod nationals one year off-road nationals the next year. Alternate the two forms of racing.

This will allow ROAR to focus its efforts on hosting / overseeing fewer nationals each year, saving the membership money...the savings would be allocated to help promote regional events which must be attending in order to attend a national. (ie: more regional directors, assistance with regional budgets, perhaps more regions, credits given by ROAR to Regional Champions to attend a national event)

Just some things to think about.

For the record...I'm all for Lipo technology...nothing pisses me off more than having just purchased $200 worth of NiMH packs for one race and now finding out they won't take a charge. This is just plan bullshit and the IB guys deserve a kick in the ass for marketing an inconsistent product.
I couldn't find just one portion of this to quote.. because its all RIGHT ON THE MARK.....

this is exactly what ROAR needs.. CARL!
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Old 11-29-2007, 01:27 PM   #114
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Originally Posted by Dawn Sanchez View Post
I have to agree.... not sure the way you put it is making this easier.. the whole shrpanel comment.. but it is the truth.

Lipo is a must in the rules for ROAR.... but how..... I don't claim to know all I need to know.. so I look for advice from the membership as to direction....
Can`t understand what is so complicated ..

Enforce the weight limit and combine both together ...
Let the racer`s decide what they wish to buy & race with....


Or just go another year like last, with a even bigger loss of membership..
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Old 11-29-2007, 01:39 PM   #115
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oh, never mind.... LOL
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Old 11-29-2007, 01:46 PM   #116
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Originally Posted by DavidAlford View Post
The problem is Roar cant make a rule that says people have to stop being stupid. So your still going to have things going boom.
Now that's funny...

Although I don't remember having the problem with "exploding" batteries years ago when Sanyo was around. If someone was "stupid" the packs would simply vent.
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Old 11-29-2007, 02:01 PM   #117
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In order to attract new racers to the joy of racing...ROAR needs to consider how to improve the enjoyment of racing.

In our area a debate was held as to what's a reasonable race entry fee to charge for a club race? What it comes down to (in electric racing especially) is how much value a racer gets for his money.

IMO: value = track time

With technology today...why not lengthen the duration of a race from 5 minutes to 8 minutes for TC and 8 minutes to 10 minutes for 1/12th scale...

The batteries can handle the run time...drivers will get more track time and the spirit of racing improves over a longer time where strategy and pacing becomes just as important as brute speed.

At a club race for example, we determined that with 60 drivers racing 1/12th scale = 12 minutes a heat (2 minutes between rounds) That would require 72minutes to finish one round of 10 drivers in each heat. If you run a fast program you can get 4 rounds + mains completed in 360 minutes or 6 hours. include (30 minutes for BS and its 6.5 hours) This does not include practice time in the morning.

The racers effectively gain an additional 10 minutes of track time in the same 6.5 hour period. The cost of a race fee per minute of track time decreases.

Racers are facing cost challenges...which is why ROAR membership continues to decline...ROAR needs to look at pro-active changes to help its members minimize the cost of racing and increase fun factor.

he's another one...all regional champions get a free ROAR membership!!!!
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Old 11-29-2007, 02:05 PM   #118
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Originally Posted by Dawn Sanchez View Post
oh, never mind.... LOL



Most track`s across the USA have already included both design`s....
They did`nt have to ask for anyones opinion...

They have no problems combining both and as result their race programs prosper....


somehow I get the feeling already we will experience some kind of delay or worst, a segregation of the two design`s....

For Roar`s sake I sure hope I am wrong....
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Old 11-29-2007, 02:06 PM   #119
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Originally Posted by Dawn Sanchez View Post
I have to agree.... not sure the way you put it is making this easier.. the whole shrpanel comment.. but it is the truth.

Lipo is a must in the rules for ROAR.... but how..... I don't claim to know all I need to know.. so I look for advice from the membership as to direction....
Hard cases don't create a "shrapnel" effect unless you permanently attach the case halves together. For example, Orion's hard cases are held together with a sticker. If the cells swell, the sticker will still allow the case halves to come apart and this alerts the user that there is a problem with the cells. The hard case isn't just about protecting the cells from damage. It's also about letting the user know when the cells have been damaged. I have a soft LiPo and doubt I'd notice if it swelled unless it puffed up a lot whereas I would know if my Orion LiPos swelled even a little bit because the hard case would come apart a little bit too...

PS. I'm glad to hear ROAR will hopefully legalize LiPo sooner than later. All the tracks I race at now allow LiPo and lots of guys who said they'd never use LiPo have recently bought their first LiPo packs so it only makes sense for ROAR to get the ball rolling...
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Old 11-29-2007, 02:14 PM   #120
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Hard cases don't create a "shrapnel" effect unless you permanently attach the case halves together. .
yea, I'm just trying to find a common ground with Derek.... bad attempt at being silly.
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