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Old 11-28-2007, 02:44 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by Nova F1 Racer View Post
Simple question George, are you going to play by ROAR rules like everyone else or demand that ROAR changes its rules to what you want them to be?

If a Roar rules prevents me from joining the fun , its a Roar problem....


you think I`m the only racer who only uses the new battery`s ?

Where I race more than 1/2 of the racer`s have gone over to the new Li-Po battery`s yeah know ....


So !

I`m not telling Roar to change a rule just for me as a individual.....

I`m only trying to help everyone & Roar as a individual.....
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Old 11-28-2007, 02:44 PM   #47
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I don't think it is too hard to come up with a practical dimension to be submited..... Like you said lipo's come in different sizes which suggests that it wouldn't be hard for a manufacturer to meet it if there was a requirement. organizations need to standardize the size somewhat instead of a free for all... Just like NIMH the dimensions can be altered from year to year if you like but to suggest any size and any capacity sounds like a free for all....
Huh?... ROAR is going to tell a manufacturer what size to build their Lipo packs? This ought to fun to see....
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Old 11-28-2007, 02:47 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by Wild Cherry View Post
If a Roar rules prevents me from joining the fun , its a Roar problem....


you think I`m the only racer who only uses the new battery`s ?

Where I race more than 1/2 of the racer`s have gone over to the new Li-Po battery`s yeah know ....


So !

I`m not telling Roar to change a rule just for me as a individual.....

I`m only trying to help everyone & Roar as a individual.....
Huh? So you admit you want ROAR to cater to you.. Image if everyone felt the same way as you do...
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Old 11-28-2007, 02:52 PM   #49
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Do you really think everyone is going to just stop using NIMH the day lipos become legal? If you do, your offically insane.
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Old 11-28-2007, 02:53 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by Nova F1 Racer View Post
Huh?... ROAR is going to tell a manufacturer what size to build their Lipo packs? This ought to fun to see....
they can specify the dimensions of the hard case they go into, that shouldn't be hard for the mfrs to abide by.
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Old 11-28-2007, 03:03 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by Nova F1 Racer View Post
Huh? So you admit you want ROAR to cater to you.. Image if everyone felt the same way as you do...

WoW ! To think I`m the only one .......

Who are you fooling.....
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Old 11-28-2007, 03:10 PM   #52
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ROAR is a racing sanctioning body with emphasis on competition rules and consistency in racing events. ROAR is not a product manager nor police over who makes what and when and where.

ROAR is 4500 members who all have the power to purchase or not purchase product for their hobby and work with ROAR management to incorporate those products into every day competitive events.

Meaning... if you want Lipo... well, we need something to put in print in order to regulate the use so we do have some consistency in the rules.....

YOU GUYS ARE ROAR.... let the MFG's know by purchasing the products that will fit into your racing.

Rick's post makes sense... guys.......... Lipo is the technology of today and tomorrow but not everybody wants to or can embrace it.. therefore, we can't limit what people can and can't use as power cells. So... get ROAR something in a general specification size with 7.4 volts and unlimited mah and lets get on with it...(not that simple, I know... but you get the point. )

more important stuff to deal with... 13.5 BL?? Redoing stock motor rules?? Bearings? Lots of stuff to talk about......

Just changing the conversation... I'm pleased to see you guys want to talk positively about ROAR and am encouraged there is so much excitement about the new year in racing.....
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Old 11-28-2007, 03:14 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by Francis M. View Post
I don't think it is too hard to come up with a practical dimension to be submited..... Like you said lipo's come in different sizes which suggests that it wouldn't be hard for a manufacturer to meet it if there was a requirement. organizations need to standardize the size somewhat instead of a free for all... Just like NIMH the dimensions can be altered from year to year if you like but to suggest any size and any capacity sounds like a free for all....

We can suggest things like 7.4V max, hard case, plugs for easy disconnect in case of a failure, some safety standard, etc.

The question is why would it be a free for all? Chassis designs, weight, and weight distributiion would limit what you can practically do. Batteries are the biggest problem now with NiMH. When it is not battery failures, it is legalization, new cells, inconsistent rules, etc. Opening it up to any 7.4V LiPo battery (assuming other rules are met) would avoid the problems we have faced with NiMH.

I wouldn't mind opening it up even further, like what was done with the 20-minute LiPo truck class at the nats...LiPo - BL - 20 minutes - make it happen.
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Old 11-28-2007, 03:21 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by Rick Hohwart View Post
We can suggest things like 7.4V max, hard case, plugs for easy disconnect in case of a failure, some safety standard, etc.

The question is why would it be a free for all? Chassis designs, weight, and weight distributiion would limit what you can practically do. Batteries are the biggest problem now with NiMH. When it is not battery failures, it is legalization, new cells, inconsistent rules, etc. Opening it up to any 7.4V LiPo battery (assuming other rules are met) would avoid the problems we have faced with NiMH.

In free for all, I thought you said that there would be no demensions for the lipo? this will make chasis manufacturers build new layouts everymonth. if you don't have battery dimentions or atleast a box for the batts....
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Old 11-28-2007, 03:22 PM   #55
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I think for the most part mike and jeff were right on the money. we all need consistant rules and standardization. I have emailed them and asked if they can do more on roar and they said they will. I just thought it was odd that a guy that is for roar runs a race that is not a roar event but I think they had good points. they must get a lot of guys that do not like rroar emailing and complaining they get nothing for thier membership dues. the do put things in perspective though. just my 2.
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Old 11-28-2007, 03:23 PM   #56
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Also suggest charging rules that absolutely ban any charger or charging practice that gets the voltage of LiPo cells over 4.2/cell. It will yield more voltage, which is what racers will try to get, but will also lead to many catastrophic failures. Whatever you do going forward, please do not ignore this. There should be a penalty, like a ban from the organization if you're caught breaking this rule.

It can be enforced/teched with a voltmeter. A 2 cell battery should NEVER be over 8.4v after it comes off the charger.
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Old 11-28-2007, 03:26 PM   #57
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I'm not sure it needs to be so hard. Any 2C 7.4 lipo under a certain MAH would be fine. For simple brushless use 13.5, 10.5 and open mod as the classes. Any brand of motor or battery and that would make it very open for bashers who want to race some and opens up many manufactures to get into racing. Lipos weigh less so lower the weight limit some and where done.

If you don't let the new stuff run people will just keep leaving are hobby and do something else. The tracks with more open rules in my area are the ones that get the most racers, just that simple.
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Old 11-28-2007, 03:27 PM   #58
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So who's looking at the effect of implementation of LiPo in 1/12? Sedans are easy...7.2v-7.4v who cares? The challenge in 1/12 is that the voltage used is almost exactly half-way between the steps allowed by 3.7v cells.

I've seen a few people playing around the fringes of this but haven't seen a truly workable solution that is easily enforceable. The closest I've seen to "workable" was this past weekend in Denver a fellow was running a regulator on a 2-cell LiPo. The challenge is how to enforce regulator settings, etc.

Exciting times.
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Old 11-28-2007, 03:33 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by microcrazy24 View Post
I . I just thought it was odd that a guy that is for roar runs a race that is not a roar event:.
Not that I like to point this out.. but sometimes enforcing ROAR membership at large events that for years have not been associated is a bad plan...

for example; my husband and I own the track that holds the Annual Proline Cactus Classic every year. Never has been a ROAR event and I can't see how I, as the ROAR Vice President, could make it a ROAR event. Although, it is part of the ROAR Cup Series in progression of creation and ROAR members who participate gain points towards the overall Cup Championship. It encourages ROAR members to participate in the event and eventually, maybe, ROAR can become a part of the Cactus. The Snowbirds is the same....

Also, Mike Boylan was just awarded a ROAR national event in 2008 (Carpet Oval).. so, yes, he is very Pro ROAR and he understands the need for the rules and consistency.

its the same old arguement.. people don't want to spend $30.00 a year (8 cents a day) for membership but will spend $100.00 on any given day on parts for their cars. If there were more ROAR races and racing was opened up with rules for the newest technology... this would be no arguement.. everybody will sign up for ROAR as they will have to... just to race at any track.
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Old 11-28-2007, 03:34 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by Francis M. View Post
In free for all, I thought you said that there would be no demensions for the lipo? this will make chasis manufacturers build new layouts everymonth. if you don't have battery dimentions or atleast a box for the batts....
I believe the manufcturers will only build chassis to take advantage of the as much battery is required ot run a race. In the case of TC now, it is 4200mAH, which is a LiPo size that will fit in most cars. Amking room or a chassis for bigger batteries is pointless. They may do it, but who is going to buy a racing chassis that can hold a 10000 mAH battery? Especially if you do a rule that limits chassis weight minus the battery.

Another thing with LiPo is that most development is with the C rating. So as batteries get better, they do not get bigger.

My opinion is that chassis manufacturers will limit the size of the batteries in their designs. This is my theory:-)
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