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Old 11-28-2007, 12:19 PM   #31
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I think roar knows li//bl is coming, but they just want to let the big boys in the r/c business have time to make the switch from nimh//brushed to li//bl. Now that lipos have the backing of big boys such as orion & trinity it probly will not be long before lipos are race legal. I am sure that you will still see sub-c size batteries at major tc events & such just because it is possible to get more power from them. However, a new breed of class that features much longer electric mains will probly come in the near future as well.
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Old 11-28-2007, 12:41 PM   #32
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Why change the weight rule and punish us that don't want to run a lipo?
I dont think its a punishment...its just that the 1525g weight rule is for 6 cell nimh in mind. THings have changed...soon most poeple will be running Lipo and BL, and touring cars are much lighter these days than what they were 4-5 years ago...weight rule drop would really benefit those running 5 cell and Lipo for mod racing, which will also become the norm soon, as more and more people are running 5 cell mod, and most new car manufacturers are making 5 cell chassis...so if you run cell chassis, make a weight change for 5 cell racing/lipo... 6 cell nimh in mod is becoming almost obsolete worldwide, and will be rare in the US soon...so why not drop the weight like EFRA and BRCA have done for the 5 cell weight rules?

In the stock and 19t clases is where its a bit diffrent, since most 6 cell nimh is the norm for the power...with lipo's allowed weight can be dropped and still be better for 6 cell and Lipo...car will run cooler, less strain on motors and ESC, and less wear on the car and parts...isnt that better? Let's say the weight were dropped to something like 1450g...you can run your 4200 6 cell nimh pack at that weight with no pblm...maybe you'll be over weight, but it's because of the cells, maybe run 3800 instead? J/k
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Old 11-28-2007, 01:15 PM   #33
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Why change the weight rule and punish us that don't want to run a lipo?
With all due respect to your wishes.

Although NiMh physically out weighs a Lipo... the benefits of a Lipo Battery "Out Weigh" a NiMh.

I am officially declaring this as a submission for the RCTECH "quote of the year award....!

And if I win.... Let me know what the prize is?
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Old 11-28-2007, 01:34 PM   #34
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Worry about weight later. Establish a standard size or shape so car manufacturers have an idea of what they're working with.

Changing weight rules for LiPo would not only "punish" NiMh users, but could cause a lot of grief with current chassis designs. With the exception of Losi and TM, most others would have a terrible time meeting minimum weight while maintaining ballast. Even though the batteries are light, the sizes are still big enough that they're not leaving any room to move electronics around. At least with the 5 cell weight changes, the packs are shorter so you can move electronics to the other side of the car.
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Old 11-28-2007, 01:35 PM   #35
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I dont think its a punishment...its just that the 1525g weight rule is for 6 cell nimh in mind. THings have changed...soon most poeple will be running Lipo and BL, and touring cars are much lighter these days than what they were 4-5 years ago...weight rule drop would really benefit those running 5 cell and Lipo for mod racing, which will also become the norm soon, as more and more people are running 5 cell mod, and most new car manufacturers are making 5 cell chassis...so if you run cell chassis, make a weight change for 5 cell racing/lipo... 6 cell nimh in mod is becoming almost obsolete worldwide, and will be rare in the US soon...so why not drop the weight like EFRA and BRCA have done for the 5 cell weight rules?

In the stock and 19t clases is where its a bit diffrent, since most 6 cell nimh is the norm for the power...with lipo's allowed weight can be dropped and still be better for 6 cell and Lipo...car will run cooler, less strain on motors and ESC, and less wear on the car and parts...isnt that better? Let's say the weight were dropped to something like 1450g...you can run your 4200 6 cell nimh pack at that weight with no pblm...maybe you'll be over weight, but it's because of the cells, maybe run 3800 instead? J/k
The reason that EFRA and BRCA had dropped the weight for 5 cell is you are loosing voltage. When you drop a cell and drop voltage I can understand droping the weight. But when you just drop weight by running a lipo but keep the same voltage as Nimh WHY should YOU be given a weight advantage? If you were droping voltage as 5 cell does agian I could understand.

By droping the weight's on cars you get into people hacking the cars up, companies WILL make car's lighter and more fragil...the 008 is a prime example of a car designed for 5 cell to be lighter and it WILL force people running nimh to go out and buy the smallest lightest items they can to be at a lower weight. This is not good for competition or consumers.

EA
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Old 11-28-2007, 01:42 PM   #36
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If you keep the weight rules the same, couldn't manufacturers build more beefy/durable cars to make up some of the weight? If that becomes the trend, people would almost have to use LiPo to avoid being too heavy.

Also, isn't the trend to slow things down? Lighter cars with LiPo would be really, really fast. The batteries are barely slower than 6 cell NiMH, and may end up being faster when used with mod.

The weight issue should be considered more carefully than perhaps anything else, as its reach is much larger than inconveniencing guys running LiPo with some extra weight.
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Old 11-28-2007, 01:49 PM   #37
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Worry about weight later. Establish a standard size or shape so car manufacturers have an idea of what they're working with.

Changing weight rules for LiPo would not only "punish" NiMh users, but could cause a lot of grief with current chassis designs. With the exception of Losi and TM, most others would have a terrible time meeting minimum weight while maintaining ballast. Even though the batteries are light, the sizes are still big enough that they're not leaving any room to move electronics around. At least with the 5 cell weight changes, the packs are shorter so you can move electronics to the other side of the car.

Stop the press, I agree with something syndrome said
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Old 11-28-2007, 01:51 PM   #38
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If you keep the weight rules the same, couldn't manufacturers build more beefy/durable cars to make up some of the weight?
I really hope that becomes a reality someday. I lost a lot of interest in onroad when cf chassis sedans became the norm...
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Old 11-28-2007, 01:52 PM   #39
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You guys need to first establish ligalized Lipo cells and/or dimensions before asking for all kinds of crazy weight changes.....
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Old 11-28-2007, 02:04 PM   #40
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You guys need to first establish ligalized Lipo cells and/or dimensions before asking for all kinds of crazy weight changes.....
EXACTLY!
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Old 11-28-2007, 02:23 PM   #41
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yes, 58.00 for over 30,000 members... thats a bit of coin that ROAR does not have... with 4500 members......

but thats not the point.

ROAR membership should be more valuable to people IF there were more participation in regions and track affiliates... My thing is, why not start at that level and get more races going... therefore more membership and then, more amenities ROAR can offer.....

its more than making regional championships count for more... its about getting more tracks involved in ROAR and find a way to get the new racers out there excited at the prospect of one day gaining a title.
But the Airplane guys NEED the AMA... You cannot step onto any of my local flying fields without being an AMA member. RC tracks are mostly run by hobby shops with their own insurance so unless you race at the national level you really don't need ROAR....

On Friday I'm standing in front of my county parks commissioner with a proposal for a permanent outdoor RC Car facility... ROAR will definitely be mentioned and needed because they will want to know that we have a central sanctioning body (just like the airplane guys) and we have rules and regulations. Whether or not I agree with ROAR or like the way it's run without ROAR my chances of getting this project approved would be zero... I got tired of listening to people cry about not having a permanent place. so 2 of us will be representing an On Road club and 2 for an Off Road club and we are working together on a common goal, I see very little of this lately... I remember when club races were truly club races....

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If you keep the weight rules the same, couldn't manufacturers build more beefy/durable cars to make up some of the weight? If that becomes the trend, people would almost have to use LiPo to avoid being too heavy.

Also, isn't the trend to slow things down? Lighter cars with LiPo would be really, really fast. The batteries are barely slower than 6 cell NiMH, and may end up being faster when used with mod.

The weight issue should be considered more carefully than perhaps anything else, as its reach is much larger than inconveniencing guys running LiPo with some extra weight.

That's what I was getting at... When I let my 8 and 3 year old sons play I give them my RPM chassis RC10T, the truck is indestructible...


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I really hope that becomes a reality someday. I lost a lot of interest in onroad when cf chassis sedans became the norm...
They are no longer Parking lot cars, which is sad because this is where they started...
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Old 11-28-2007, 02:28 PM   #42
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You guys need to first establish ligalized Lipo cells and/or dimensions before asking for all kinds of crazy weight changes.....
This is going to be very diffiicult to manage. Unlike sub-c batteries that are based on an international standard, LiPo cells come in many different sizes. There is no standard. A hard case could be a requirement though.

Personally, I think there should be no limit to size or capacity. Car manufacturers will have to design their cars around Lipo sizes that will be used to run the race lengths that the organization mandates. Right now, a LiPo battery about the same size as a 6-cell sub-c pack.

NiMH thows a wrench into things, but with Lipo it would be nice to see a minumum chassis weight (without battery). A guy who wants to run a high capacity LiPo will automatically carry more weight than a guy running a lower capacity LiPo.
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Old 11-28-2007, 02:30 PM   #43
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I don't know why everone keeps mentioning Sedans like they need to only be run on prepared tracks. You can adjust ride height for bumpy tracks and the cars are performing better, getting cheaper for what you get and if you don't want to pay for a carbon fider double deck chasis. All the manufacturers has a budget version that is just as versitile adjustment wise minus the more expensive material.
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Old 11-28-2007, 02:39 PM   #44
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Guys I don't think you realize what is going to happen when lipos become race legal. nimh cells are going to disapear & it will help to increase the popularity of the hobby. You are going to start to see long 20 minute mains instead of triple mains, you will start to see more afordable race budgets, and quite honeslty I think everyone should run in the same class per chasis class, perhaps w/ a pro & sportsman like you see w/ the 1/8th scale buggies and 2wd nitro. Imagine if world class driver's battery, esc, & motor costs for 2 years of racing in one class set him back less then $500. I see people go through more then that in a race weekend. This is the direction electric is headed in, the only variation from class to class will be the chasis. If roar doesn't want to lead the way for classes such as this then you will see local tracks & clubs lead the way as many are already doing.
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Old 11-28-2007, 02:40 PM   #45
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This is going to be very diffiicult to manage. Unlike sub-c batteries that are based on an international standard, LiPo cells come in many different sizes. There is no standard. A hard case could be a requirement though.

Personally, I think there should be no limit to size or capacity. Car manufacturers will have to design their cars around Lipo sizes that will be used to run the race lengths that the organization mandates. Right now, a LiPo battery about the same size as a 6-cell sub-c pack.

NiMH thows a wrench into things, but with Lipo it would be nice to see a minumum chassis weight (without battery). A guy who wants to run a high capacity LiPo will automatically carry more weight than a guy running a lower capacity LiPo.
I don't think it is too hard to come up with a practical dimension to be submited..... Like you said lipo's come in different sizes which suggests that it wouldn't be hard for a manufacturer to meet it if there was a requirement. organizations need to standardize the size somewhat instead of a free for all... Just like NIMH the dimensions can be altered from year to year if you like but to suggest any size and any capacity sounds like a free for all....
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