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Old 01-02-2008, 09:57 AM   #286
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I ran these pack again yeasterday and they are good. I was running .1 -.2 a lap faster at the end compared to guys with 4200's and I was .1 a lap faster than the guys with ep4600's This is in 13.5 carpet foam touring car. Very good packs indeed.
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Old 01-02-2008, 09:58 AM   #287
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Mr. North, it's probably got to due with the fact that the EP4200 and IB4200 aren't being sold anymore. If anything it's the mfrs. fault since they introduced new cells and discontinued their old ones without the new ones being legal yet.
Reedy still offers IB4200s - the best cell you can buy.
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Old 01-02-2008, 09:59 AM   #288
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yes, we are making a one time exception on the 4600 mah cells - deadline for submittal is 12/31/07. We have received the IB's, the EnerG's and the Orion's per email today from the Technical Director.

This isn't going to happen again....

....we do have twice a year approvals and that is the best for our membership and has been keeping the battery wars at bay.... but, we might need to consider something else for later 2008 and into 2009 regarding weights of cells instead of mah. The 43mm can can only hold so much.. and it appears that is being pushed to the limits and is that really safe for our membership?
Why is there an exception being made?
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Old 01-02-2008, 10:18 AM   #289
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To get away from the 4200 as fast as possible. They're doing more harm than good for the sport.
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Old 01-02-2008, 11:25 AM   #290
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Reedy still offers IB4200s - the best cell you can buy.
Why do you say this? I have cycled ib4200's. ep4600, and en4600's I feel that the en4600's are on top, they have a lower ir, and hold up better over time. Once you get a few cycles on the ib4200's they aren't so good anymore...
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Old 01-02-2008, 01:46 PM   #291
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Mr. North, it's probably got to due with the fact that the EP4200 and IB4200 aren't being sold anymore. If anything it's the mfrs. fault since they introduced new cells and discontinued their old ones without the new ones being legal yet.
For some reason I just don't think that is the issue. 4200's are still available from EP and IB.

Will the new ROAR President please give the people a straight and honest answer as to why the "One Time Exception" is being made?

Last edited by Peter North; 01-02-2008 at 01:59 PM.
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Old 01-02-2008, 03:02 PM   #292
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Why do you even care? You should be glad that you have a governing body that is quick to impose new changes. Especially batteries, cause with 4600, there's no excuse to dump in mod.
I just hope that our stupider-than-stupid EFRA actually takes notice and do something aswell, not just ban everything in a desperate move.
Ok, maybe a little harsh, but they do think with their arse sometimes.
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Old 01-02-2008, 03:48 PM   #293
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Why do you even care? You should be glad that you have a governing body that is quick to impose new changes. Especially batteries, cause with 4600, there's no excuse to dump in mod.
I just hope that our stupider-than-stupid EFRA actually takes notice and do something aswell, not just ban everything in a desperate move.
Ok, maybe a little harsh, but they do think with their arse sometimes.
I have to agree to some point. Our country national championiship starts at march, wich means i cant use new cells for the first event. hell, i dont even know wich will be legal... will Ib4200 be legal? Do they obey the new length rule? And what does that 'batteries may never exceed 43.0 mm in length' mean? if i buy a cell 42.7 mm and it expands to 43.2 i have to trash it because it is no longer legal?
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Old 01-02-2008, 04:35 PM   #294
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I have to agree to some point. Our country national championiship starts at march, wich means i cant use new cells for the first event. hell, i dont even know wich will be legal... will Ib4200 be legal? Do they obey the new length rule? And what does that 'batteries may never exceed 43.0 mm in length' mean? if i buy a cell 42.7 mm and it expands to 43.2 i have to trash it because it is no longer legal?
I think the size rule means that the sample of cells they have submitted for homologation must not exceed the size either before during or after charge and discharge.

If they pass the test then the cells become legal. If the pack of cells you buy for some reason expands to more than the maximum size that is not the issue, its the sample cells that determine if the type of cell is legal or not.

Or at least that is how I understand it
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Old 01-02-2008, 05:31 PM   #295
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Originally Posted by Peter North View Post
For some reason I just don't think that is the issue. 4200's are still available from EP and IB.

Will the new ROAR President please give the people a straight and honest answer as to why the "One Time Exception" is being made?

Just saw this.

Because the EP4600's were placed on the approval list when the MFG contacted ROAR directly about the 4200 cell being rewrapped into 4600s. ROAR placed the battery on the list as it was the same cell as already on the list.

Wrong or not - that is what happened. To mediate the miscommunications, the Technical Director and I both chose to make a one time deviation to the deadline for 4600's ONLY.

Nothing sinister about this. Nothing Corrupt..... amazing I read that. Simply put, ROAR made a decision and afterwards found it was not the best decision so made another decision to ensure fairness to all battery matchers and MFG's.

I hope this issue goes away now and its publically stated that yes, a mistake in communication was made and the adjustment was the same mistake was allowed to every one.



ALSO... once a battery is on the list.. its on the list. If the IB4200 had been legal through the year at one of the two time approval deadlines, its legal for the 2008 nationals.

My understanding is 4600's were in question for the Carpet Nats and it appear we are solving that issue as well. Please, point out to me when has ROAR EVER moved this fast? LOL
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Old 01-02-2008, 05:36 PM   #296
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I think the size rule means that the sample of cells they have submitted for homologation must not exceed the size either before during or after charge and discharge.

If they pass the test then the cells become legal. If the pack of cells you buy for some reason expands to more than the maximum size that is not the issue, its the sample cells that determine if the type of cell is legal or not.

Or at least that is how I understand it
yes.. in ROAR...

I understand EFRA is attempting to pass a rule that a cell cannot exceed 43mm even after cycling. Not wise if you ask me.

ROAR has a 43mm can rule before cycling and allows a tolerance up tot 44mm after cycling, when you include the center button. I'm not a fan of tolerances as they become the standard in time... but in this case, with batteries already 'expanding'... we might need to consider a weight rule instead of a size rule?

(Yea, I opened up the flood gates to start a discussion... LOL)
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Old 01-02-2008, 09:54 PM   #297
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawn Sanchez View Post
Just saw this.

Because the EP4600's were placed on the approval list when the MFG contacted ROAR directly about the 4200 cell being rewrapped into 4600s. ROAR placed the battery on the list as it was the same cell as already on the list.

Wrong or not - that is what happened. To mediate the miscommunications, the Technical Director and I both chose to make a one time deviation to the deadline for 4600's ONLY.

Nothing sinister about this. Nothing Corrupt..... amazing I read that. Simply put, ROAR made a decision and afterwards found it was not the best decision so made another decision to ensure fairness to all battery matchers and MFG's.

I hope this issue goes away now and its publically stated that yes, a mistake in communication was made and the adjustment was the same mistake was allowed to every one.



ALSO... once a battery is on the list.. its on the list. If the IB4200 had been legal through the year at one of the two time approval deadlines, its legal for the 2008 nationals.

My understanding is 4600's were in question for the Carpet Nats and it appear we are solving that issue as well. Please, point out to me when has ROAR EVER moved this fast? LOL
Ah, so ROAR put the EP4600 on the list knowing it was a re wrapped 4200? I get it, I think.

Thanks for your time.

Last edited by Peter North; 01-02-2008 at 10:20 PM.
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Old 01-02-2008, 11:03 PM   #298
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Also I noticed that the EU spec (shorter) orion cells actually had more voltage, lower IR, less weight and just a bit down on runtime. So if the same can be said about the Ener-G shorter EFRA spec cells then they could be a very good cell for when runtime is not an issue.
As a matcher, I find all low runtime cells have good voltage and low IR. I think it is just the way the matching machines calculate the average voltage and IR. So in some ways it is a false figure to judge a cell on especially on cels that have low runtime
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Old 01-03-2008, 08:07 AM   #299
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Why don't you guys move this discussion to a different thread, it concerns more that just these cells/ performance/ maintenance ect that this thread was started for.

Thanks
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Old 01-03-2008, 08:22 AM   #300
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Hi guys!!

I dont know what to do..? I fully charged a pack and wont be using it until a day or 2!

Shall I just leave it til I run it or can discharge it on my equalizing tray?

I dont have a high (20/30a) discharger? so...

I want to do whats best for the cells and dont want them to run flat
I discharged a pack once at 10amps and it felt flat the next run

Thanks!!
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