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Old 11-25-2007, 07:54 PM   #1
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Questions?? Gettin back in the game, battery confusion!!!

So my mom was cleaning out her basement and decided that I should have some more of my stuff back... So when she came to visit she left me a couple boxes.

Team Associated RC10 T3
with a novak rooster speed controller, motorman torque master motor, and Futaba FP-R122JE - 2 channel reciever, Futaba s3003 servo

HPI Racing all wheel drive belt driven chassis (model unknown, I wanna say RS4 Super or similar)
with Tekin Rebel speed control, Kyosho 16 turn Endoplasma motor, and another Futaba FP-R122JE 2 channel and Futaba s3003 servo

Royal Crusher (still at my rents house, so no known info)

Sears Lobo II (my first RC car)

Nikko Jet Tornado speed boat (modified to accept battery packs)

Futaba Magnum Sport FP-T2PB remote

Futaba Attack Spoort FP-T2NCS remote

two Hobbico chargers, a 905 and a 920

a large tackle box filled with random screws and parts, including a transmission that I was never able to get working (if I remember correctly)

Basically, I have a couple questions
1. are these worth working on? Mainly the HPI and the Team Associated

2. I see a lot about Li-Po and Li-Ion batteries, which should I go for? Obviously my Ni-Cad's need to be recycled and are useless now (6 years old). I was looking on ebay and like the idea of being able to charge multiple types of batteries with 1 charger. IMAX on EBay


3. Are turborix products any good? http://stores.ebay.com/RVMShop-Store

4. Are my components compatible with Li-Ion or Li-Po?

5. Brushless motors??? Where can I get more info and can I use my existing speed controller? Are they better?

I think that just about sums it up, if I come up with anything else, I will post it up! thanks!

Scott
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Old 11-26-2007, 02:34 AM   #2
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1) For competition? T3 yes, Super RS4 no. But, you may want to update your electronics.

2) I think you'd be happier with something servicable in America, like a Triton 2 or ICE. I have no experiance with that charger, but I would be wary of any electronics that doesn't have an Amercan service center (and shipped directly from HK)

3) No experiance with them, never heard of them before. I would recommend Novak, Castle Creations, LRP, Orion or Trinity.

4) Yes and No. They will work, but you'll have to be very careful that you don't discharge your batteries too low. Lithium batteries do not like to be discharged below 3v/cell. Some newer (mostly brushless) ESCs have low voltage cut-offs that prevent over discharging. You will need a lipoly specific charger, don't use your current ones!

5) No. You need a brushless ESC for a brushless motor. They work a lot differently than brushed systems and require a special ESC. They are better, for the most part. BL systems are more efficient and require less maintenance. However, I seem to put down faster lap times with a brushed system in me Gen X. BL systems are heavier and don't seem to have the acceleration of a brushed system. Here's a wikipedia article on BL motors: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brushless_motor

IMHO Brushless and Lipoly are the inevitable future of R/C car racing. Planes, helicopters and boats have all gone this way, I'm surprised it took the car community so long to get with the program.

-Frank
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Old 11-26-2007, 02:38 AM   #3
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orion li-po cells can be discharged below 3v a cell, but none of the others can. the orion cells are more versatile.
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Old 11-26-2007, 02:45 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joe of loath View Post
orion li-po cells can be discharged below 3v a cell, but none of the others can. the orion cells are more versatile.
Orion cells are made by Kokam.

I still wouldn't recommend going below 3v/cell. Manufactures of lipo cells state that they can be safely discharged to 2.7v/cell, but you'll loose cell life and performance.

Quote:
• Do I need to discharge the packs after use??
NO!The Li-Po pack must,UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES,be discharged after use .Unlike with NiMH batteries,doing so will not “equalize ” the pack..Instead,it will permanently damage it.
For the experts:The cut-off voltage for discharge is 2.7V per cell.If discharged below this level,there is an irreversible chemical
reaction that will lead to destruction of the cell.Therefore,we recommend setting a cut-off (if your controller allows to do so)of 3.0V.
NOTE:LiPo batteries do not have a memory effect.You can use it in any charge state without risking loss of capacity or power.In
fact,the useful cycle life will increase if discharged to 80%only.
From the Team Orion website

-Frank
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Old 11-26-2007, 03:03 AM   #5
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maybe so, its just in another thread a guy said he'd accidentally drained all his lipos (all major brands cycle testing) and the only one to survive was the orion one, which was still going strong 400 cycles on...
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Old 11-26-2007, 08:09 AM   #6
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really so if you discharge them even just by running them hella long you can destroy them? Or is that just with discharging them thru your charger?

I think I might just stick with the brushed motors for simplicity and less to buy. If I get really into it again, maybe I will spend the extra cash...

I agree with you on the chargers, they should be at least servicable in the united states. I wasn't thinking about that when I was looking. I just found one guy with a store and saw that he had a bunch of stuff.

I do want to go Lithium, either Po or Ion, doesn't really matter, I do like the idea of only having 1 charger. My chargers are old and I never liked the timer idea anyway.

What do you recommend for a ESC? Is Tekin still a top brand or should I look else where? I definitely want the low cell cut off feature!

I really appreciate the feedback. I wasn't planning on competing, just wanted to screw around again. My T3 has always been my favorite the HPI is fun but outa control from what I remember.

Approximately how long do these batteries last? I remember my Ni-Cad's only lasting about 5 minutes... Nothing worth writing home to mom about, thats for sure...

thanks again guys!

Scott
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Old 11-26-2007, 08:42 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ragefear View Post
really so if you discharge them even just by running them hella long you can destroy them?

Scott
Absoulutly!!!

that is the big no no for lipos-overdischarging
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Old 11-26-2007, 12:07 PM   #8
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i race a t4 with a orion 4800 lipo battery , novak 13.5 ss pro motor and novak gtb speed control , the gtb has a lipo low voltage cut off , ive practiced for over 20 minutes and never had it shut off , ray
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Old 11-26-2007, 12:38 PM   #9
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rage


when your car noticeably begins to slow down or dump , pull off...

When you measure the voltage on the pack after, it should show slightly above or below 7 volts ...

The lowest voltage you should go is about 6.25V...



You never discharge Li-po cells , you just recharge um & race um, over and over...
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Old 11-26-2007, 01:23 PM   #10
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you can charge lipos any way you want and they just keep coming for more

you can:
charge them halfway,
flatten halfway then charge up again
charge them up, then charge again before the big race etc etc etc.

most versatile technology, its only downfall is it's very volatile so you need the right charger otherwise BOOM...
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Old 11-26-2007, 02:37 PM   #11
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whats all this 2s3p and I was looking at the orion batteries, where are their wires? Man, the confusion is building!
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Old 11-26-2007, 03:14 PM   #12
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2s3p means 2 cells in series, 3 in parallel. so 3.7 volts a cell will be 7.4, and (say) 3200mah a cell would be 9600mah.
and the lack of wires? i assume they use banana plugs.
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