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Old 11-16-2007, 10:33 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Rick Hohwart View Post
I hop you are wrong! As far as I know, neither is legal for competition. So rater than dump inexpensive RTR brushed systems, they'll have to ditch their expensive non-legal BL systems to buy an expensive legal one.
Yeah I know what you mean. Maybe senorless will be leagl one day...then that can just throw in a sensorless 13.5 or 17.5.
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Old 11-16-2007, 10:36 AM   #17
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Losi has an entry level system that will be $179 and Castle has one coming that is cheaper than that. I can see noobs using one of those when they first get started.
Novak offers a cheap, legal system for $169.00
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Old 11-16-2007, 10:43 AM   #18
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There will never be a brushless equivalent to a brushed stock motor. They may have similar laps / lap times but how they get there will always be different.
That is very true...no matter what color you paint an ORANGE...it will NEVER be an APPLE.

However, we did extensive testing with the 17.5 motor (searching for something else) and found it was so much closer to the speeds of a STOCK motor than ANYTHING else out there.

The 13.5's with BONDED rotors were the benchmark, but once you stuffed a Sintered Rotor in them...they were not even close to stock speeds anymore. (At least if geared properly)

..as to the price comparison, I haven't seen a true $24.00 STOCK Motor in a long time...close to $35.00 on average, plus a couple EXTRA sets of Brushes, plus the cost of REPLACING the brushes every few races, plus I personally NEVER bought one STOCK motor at a time...I always bought 3 to HOPE to get one really good one...so that was OVER $100.00 just in itself. But that wasn't the debate here... it was about whether or not the 17,5 is compatible to a 27t STOCK motor. (The TRUE answer is No - NOTHING is compatible...but a 27t STOCK motor...but the 17.5 is about as CLOSE as you are ever going to find)
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Old 11-16-2007, 11:04 AM   #19
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Because the sintered rotors stand up to the abuse that people put them through MUCH better than the bonded rotors do.

If you overgear/over run a motor with a bonded rotor the rotor's magnetic strength will drop off rather quickly... this will lead to a much less efficient motor ... this means higher motor temps... higher ESC temps... and eventually failure of either the ESC or the motor.

With a sintered rotor the margin for error is larger... meaning tha you're less likely to cook something because you ran it "wrong".

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I don't understand why we allow the sintered rotors. Most seem to agree that the original bonded rotor 13.5s were a pretty good match.
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Old 11-16-2007, 11:07 AM   #20
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I don't understand why we allow the sintered rotors. Most seem to agree that the original bonded rotor 13.5s were a pretty good match.

It seems obvious that the brushless stock class or combined bl/brushed... should only allow bonded rotor motors. For now, that would be an immediate "fix" or at least a band-aid to the issue.
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Old 11-16-2007, 11:15 AM   #21
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Default cost of brushless part 2

The novak ex 13.5 system is $169. For the $169, you get a legal BL system with novak GTX performance (according to novak.)

A good brushed speed controller is: $85 (novak rooster reversible) + a good stock motor is $32. So about $120 for a brushed system vs $170 for a brushless. If the initial cost difference is $50, I think most newbies will get the BL if the differences are explained to them.
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Old 11-16-2007, 11:16 AM   #22
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This forum has a rather "Alice in Wonderland" vibe lately...LOL Lots of posts being quoted before they were even made.
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Old 11-16-2007, 11:17 AM   #23
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Yeah, I just notice that...very strange!
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Old 11-16-2007, 11:30 AM   #24
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Maybe It should be equal in the brushed, tamiya sport tuned "plus"(110-120%, i think).
Like Speedpassion's sensorless 15T, rs-540bl2.
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Old 11-16-2007, 11:36 AM   #25
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The problem of comparison is exacerbated by the fact that the results are different based on what type of car you're using. For us, sedans running 13.5's look identical to 27T's in the straights, but show a bit of an advantage out of the turns. It's there, for sure, but it's not THAT big. But... a 13.5 in a 1/12th scale makes a 27T look silly by comparison.

So, making blanket statements about compatibility in terms of performance isn't really possible from one style of car to the next. You really have to say what style of racing/car you're using to tell the whole story, and try not to make conclusive comparisons between, say, 4 cell oval and 6 cell on-road.
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Old 11-16-2007, 11:38 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by PitNamedGordie View Post


Losi has an entry level system that will be $179 and Castle has one coming that is cheaper than that. I can see noobs using one of those when they first get started.
without the so called(noobs) our sport wont grow, and could die out, we need to do everything we can to catch the interest of new racers or what you call noobs......
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Old 11-16-2007, 11:43 AM   #27
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I don't really care what the 13.5 equivalent is, all I know is that since running brushless my weekly racing fun factor has gone up significantly and the cost factor has gone down. I run the 10.5 class but same rules apply to 19 turn.
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Old 11-16-2007, 11:57 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by syndr0me View Post
The problem of comparison is exacerbated by the fact that the results are different based on what type of car you're using.
That...and it also depends on what "stock" motor you're comparing it to. There are stock motor tuners around here that have REALLY fast 27T motors. A normal guy with a 13.5 will get smoked by some of the "stock" guys around here.

The best thing about brushless is that it allows the average racer to go out and purchase enough power to get the job done...to "get on base" as it were.

13.5/17.5 I don't really care. As long as it's brushless, I'll be racing it.
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Old 11-16-2007, 12:01 PM   #29
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I don't really care what the 13.5 equivalent is, all I know is that since running brushless my weekly racing fun factor has gone up significantly and the cost factor has gone down. .
YES
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Old 11-16-2007, 12:09 PM   #30
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YES
Oh man, it won't be long before we see you in the LiPo threads I bet! :-)
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