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Old 11-11-2007, 12:38 PM   #61
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The Liposack has been very handy, though it's a little more expensive ($25) than clay pots or ammo boxes. I use it to store my batteries when they're not in use. They've got a demo video showing how it works in the worst case scenerio, like when you weld directly to a battery's leads and then intentionally blast it with way more voltage than it can handle.
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Old 11-11-2007, 01:09 PM   #62
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Interesting veiws, if you ban mimh and go to lipo all these matchers will start pushing those lipos to the limits like the mimh and the same problem will come back with lipo as it is with mimh, where does the madness stop?............................. It doesn't.
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Old 11-11-2007, 01:26 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by losi guy View Post
Interesting veiws, if you ban mimh and go to lipo all these matchers will start pushing those lipos to the limits like the mimh and the same problem will come back with lipo as it is with mimh, where does the madness stop?............................. It doesn't.
I dunno... SMC is a top matcher and they didn't see the need to match their LiPo line because they were so close from cell to cell. If you ban people from overcharging the batteries and go to a spec cell (so everybody is running the same cell) things can be quite even.
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Old 11-11-2007, 01:42 PM   #64
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Good point, I suppose there are some things that could be done. It's hard to say what would be done with lipo because lipo isn't were nimh is so i guess alot of it would be speculation. I think alot of the failure is with people not charging them right. I have a few packs that i just recently picked up and wasn't quite sure the best way to charge them so i contacted the man. and got all the information that i needed and the packs have worked flawlessly. Charging these new packs with the higher voltage (4200's +) Isn't like charging my older 3300's. Battery care seems to be the success of these new higher voltage cells for the most part.
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Old 11-11-2007, 02:54 PM   #65
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losi guy, the difference is, there are lipo cells that last a long time on the market right now. Matchers, who will have limited influence on the market because of the number of direct-to-customer pack builders, can't ruin that. The NimH market does not have a single quality cell available for sale. In 13 months of racing I've had:

9pcs IB4200 fail (used a total of 54pcs)
2ps EP4200 fail (used a total of 14pcs) (one dead in the box, one after five cycles)
4pcs Elite 3600 fail (used a total of 20pcs)
4pcs Elite 4500 fail (used a total of 18pcs)
1pcs Elite 4500 go off like a shotgun on a 6A charge, 0mV peak detection

The technology is crap. It's that simple. And in the last year and a half it's only gotten worse. Yeah, it's time to switch to lipo. There's nothing to lose. Hell, you can't even buy a IB or EP pack if you wanted to right now. That's how bad they are.

Oh, and BTW, in three years of high-performance electric airplane flying with lipos (2004-2006), I had:

0 pcs fail (used a total of ~300 pcs)

The only time I had a lipo pack go bad on me was when my TX got switched on during transport and drained the lipo battery. Now I unplug my TX battery for transport.

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Old 11-11-2007, 05:45 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by syndr0me View Post
The Liposack has been very handy, though it's a little more expensive ($25) than clay pots or ammo boxes. I use it to store my batteries when they're not in use. They've got a demo video showing how it works in the worst case scenerio, like when you weld directly to a battery's leads and then intentionally blast it with way more voltage than it can handle.
Well MOnday when I get a chance to stop by my buddies shop I will be looking into the liposack. Thanks for the info.
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Old 11-12-2007, 12:49 PM   #67
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I just ran a 2 day event this weekend (3 days if you count practice). I ran 12th scale and 19T Sedan Rubber. Sedan rubber was the only class that allowed you the option of a brushless motor (10.5) and lipo. Over 3 days I put almost 20 runs on my Team Orion 3200. I didn't have to equalize them after every run. I didn't have to let them rest for multiple hours, I just plugged it right into my Astroflight 109 charger after each run. I didn't have to calculate out exactly when to start charging so it would peak just before my heat (So I'd get maximum performance). I never had to remove it from my car. Best of all, I only needed one pack for the whole event!

12th scale was another thing all together. I needed 4 packs, had to equalize, had to calculate time, had to let them rest, etc. I look forward to the days when we'll be running lipo in 12th (I prefer the 7.4v - slower motor option).

If you're looking at cost: One lipo pack costs about $100. Four 4.8v Nihm packs cost about $220.

I've been using lipo for almost 5 years in aircraft and I'm happy to see that the r/c car community is starting to accept these cells. They are lighter, faster and require less maintenance than nickel cells. If treated right (charged with a proper charger and not over discharged) they are also very safe.

I have never seen a lipo burst into flames first hand, I have seen two 4200 nihm cells explode over the last month. This last weekend I also saw the charred remnants of a touring car with a nihm pack that shorted out and burned up (also burned out the interior of a full-sized truck).

All technology can bite you in the ass. Currently I think lipos are safer simply because we are more wary of them and pay more attention to how they're charged and discharged. We have become to complacent in our handling of Nihms.

I love lipo and I see that as the future of R/C car racing. I'm just surprised that it's taken so long for car guys to come around.

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Old 11-12-2007, 05:12 PM   #68
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IB4600 next month release approve ?
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Old 11-12-2007, 07:55 PM   #69
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is anyone aware of liposacks coming in different sizes?

in the link below, it mentions the sack as tested for 3-cell packs up to 2100mah only.
"Larger packs have not been tested and are not recommended for use inside the LipoSack."

http://www.wiredrc.com.au/shop/index...&productId=305
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Old 11-12-2007, 09:28 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by syndr0me View Post
If you ban people from overcharging the batteries and go to a spec cell (so everybody is running the same cell) things can be quite even.
How do you ban someone from overcharging a battery? "I'm sorry sir you are not allowed to race because our records show you charged an IB4200 at 9amps at a club race in Ohio 6 months ago. Sorry 'bout your luck, have fun running your car in your front yard."
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Old 11-12-2007, 09:41 PM   #71
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back to the Q


NO
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Old 11-12-2007, 11:22 PM   #72
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How do you ban someone from overcharging a battery? "I'm sorry sir you are not allowed to race because our records show you charged an IB4200 at 9amps at a club race in Ohio 6 months ago. Sorry 'bout your luck, have fun running your car in your front yard."
A voltmeter to the battery during tech should be sufficient. If it reads over 8.4v, it's overcharged. I was only speaking about ruling against it with LiPo, not NiMH.
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Old 11-13-2007, 07:35 PM   #73
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charge at 6amps and just race. charging any higher is retarded the top guys in the world charge at 6 amps and they seem to be doing just fine. and gee its so much work to throw a few seconds into a pack every week
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Old 11-13-2007, 07:57 PM   #74
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Is it just me or is it like one or the other? Why cant we have them both.
I'll run mine and you run yours.
Not that maybe they don't need to enforce a restriction on a specific MAH but come on banning them is not going to happen.

This battery war is getting nuts.
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Old 11-13-2007, 08:00 PM   #75
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charge at 6amps and just race. charging any higher is retarded the top guys in the world charge at 6 amps and they seem to be doing just fine. and gee its so much work to throw a few seconds into a pack every week
This is some good advice. If you read each manufacturers recommended charging rates the highest I've seen is five amps. 4.5 is common.
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