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Old 11-10-2007, 05:50 AM   #46
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Where have all the big "battery matchers" gone??

Are they in hiding?

What do they have to say about these recent incidents?
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Old 11-10-2007, 07:12 AM   #47
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Where have all the big "battery matchers" gone??

Are they in hiding?

What do they have to say about these recent incidents?
Maybe because the "battery matchers" are not the battery manufacturers. And the matchers are not responsible for the manufacturers pushing the limits of cell technology/manufacture or the "stupid human" element. We have demanded more voltage and runtime. The manufacters have given us what we wanted. And very few, if anybody, cared how. The matchers overall have been very good telling us how to care for the cells, but I am sure there are some things the manufacturers don't want to pass on to them to keep ahead of the other manufacturers. Properly cared for and handled both types of batteries are relatively safe. I still think it is the "stupid human" element, the brain fart, or a "it seemed like a good idea at the time" moment along with the intoxicating desire to go faster. It is this combination that is explosive.
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Old 11-10-2007, 07:23 AM   #48
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The battery companies having been giving us new cells with better run time and voltage for years. They're all trying to one up each other so they can grab the R/C market. Now, suddenly they're having trouble, and it's our fault?

I think the popularity of EP's in spite of their lower voltage is a clear indication that we're not "demanding" more voltage and the expense of everything else. And that doesn't even take LiPo into consideration, which has the voltage of an old 3300 pack, yet the line it out the door for people waiting to switch.

I blame the greedy battery companies, and maybe even certain greedy matchers for generating the false impression that everybody in R/C cares only about voltage and nothing else. Clearly, that's not the case, except for a small portion of the "racing" crowd.. And now, a lot of people that don't care about volts are stuck with dangerous, unreliable exploding cells since that's all anybody wants to sell.
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Old 11-10-2007, 08:08 AM   #49
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A123 cells are easy to fit in todays cars. All you need is 2 cells to make a 6 minute main. They are the length of 3 subcs side by side and two of them side by side is slightly longer then a sub c is long. Not to mention you don't have to have them mounted on top of each other you can run them as a saddle pack if you want.
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Old 11-10-2007, 11:38 AM   #50
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The battery companies having been giving us new cells with better run time and voltage for years. They're all trying to one up each other so they can grab the R/C market. Now, suddenly they're having trouble, and it's our fault?

I think the popularity of EP's in spite of their lower voltage is a clear indication that we're not "demanding" more voltage and the expense of everything else. And that doesn't even take LiPo into consideration, which has the voltage of an old 3300 pack, yet the line it out the door for people waiting to switch.

I blame the greedy battery companies, and maybe even certain greedy matchers for generating the false impression that everybody in R/C cares only about voltage and nothing else. Clearly, that's not the case, except for a small portion of the "racing" crowd.. And now, a lot of people that don't care about volts are stuck with dangerous, unreliable exploding cells since that's all anybody wants to sell.

I agree with the same voltage as the 3300 from the start. But in the middle and the end of a five minute race, thats when a lipo battery starts to shine

I don't know about you, but I like the linear power band.

Go Lipo! I'll hold the door for everyone to come in
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Old 11-10-2007, 12:19 PM   #51
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We could think of battery chemistries as gears on a car. certian capacities can be reached before the chemistry "Redlines".

Nicd - 1st gear, goes from 0-2400 mah.

Nimh - 2nd gear, goes from 2000-4200ish mah.

NIMH is probably redlining in capacity and performance now. if we push the chemistry more, we'll have more problems. Now, the third gear is in reach: Lipo. it'll go further than NIMH capacity wise, there's still lots of room for Lipo to grow. Lipo will develop just like NIMH and NICD did, ever improving and becoming more reliable, untill the chemistry "redlines" like we are seeing now with NIMH.

Yes, lipo is much different from the typical can cells we're used to, but it's the future. And yes, lipo doesnt have as high a resting voltage when compared to NIMH, but under high discharges it's actually higher. Lipo is more linear, and i like it that way. you could put in a hotter motor if you wanted, instead of pushing nimh cells ineccisarily. And lipo safety issues will slowly diminish as i said earlier, it evolves. It'll just take some time for things to be figured out, but lipo is the third gear of the hobby, not much can change it.

Just my $.02!
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Old 11-11-2007, 09:03 AM   #52
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Last nite i told one of my fellow racers that i was going to run the new Orion 3600 lipo when it comes out.His first response was 'you are not charging lipos in my pit room,(Yeah he thinks he owns the place).I would be charging in a lipo bag anyway.He said that he read an article about a lipo EXPLODING in a car that was on the starting line and it sent 7 drivers to the hospital to get stitches.Well,i normally don't beleive a word he says cause he is the biggest bull$hitter i have ever seen,but i held back on my response until i could prove him right or wrong.He is supposed to send me this article he read via email.I have heard of lipos catching fire,but not exploding like nimh.He is one of these guys that loves to hear himself talk,but if he is right about this,i would like to know.I doubt if he will ever send me this article cause he never has come thru before.Anyway,has anyone heard of this happening ?.
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Old 11-11-2007, 09:39 AM   #53
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all i can say is different battery technologies need to be treated differently. people knew how to look oafter ni-mh's because they used ni-cd's before. they are now afraid of lipo because it's totally different. maybe someone should make some sub-c lipo cells! that would coax people out of their cells, as well as giving some killer voltages.
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Old 11-11-2007, 12:05 PM   #54
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Last nite i told one of my fellow racers that i was going to run the new Orion 3600 lipo when it comes out.His first response was 'you are not charging lipos in my pit room,(Yeah he thinks he owns the place).I would be charging in a lipo bag anyway.He said that he read an article about a lipo EXPLODING in a car that was on the starting line and it sent 7 drivers to the hospital to get stitches.Well,i normally don't beleive a word he says cause he is the biggest bull$hitter i have ever seen,but i held back on my response until i could prove him right or wrong.He is supposed to send me this article he read via email.I have heard of lipos catching fire,but not exploding like nimh.He is one of these guys that loves to hear himself talk,but if he is right about this,i would like to know.I doubt if he will ever send me this article cause he never has come thru before.Anyway,has anyone heard of this happening ?.
Ive never heard of LIPO exploding unlike NiMH witch can go off like a shot gun. It sounds like you hit the nail on the head with your mate been the biggest bull$hitter. Any way if you go for Oion LIPO they are as safe as any battery wheather its LIPO or NiMH and if your mate is running IBs it you that should pit some where else if his knowledge of them is as bad as it is with LIPO.
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Old 11-11-2007, 12:35 PM   #55
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The Orion packs are especially safe thanks to the Kokam cells they use. Orion themselves have said several times that they get a lot of calls about failed NiMH causing problems, but never a call about their LiPo. I would feel much more confident using an Orion LiPo than one of the latest NiMH packs when it comes to safety.
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Old 11-11-2007, 12:39 PM   #56
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We have demanded more voltage and runtime. The manufacters have given us what we wanted. And very few, if anybody, cared how.
Who "demanded" more voltage and runtime?

Seems like the other way around...the manufacturers are the ones who keep touting higher numbers, with newer cells every six months.
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Old 11-11-2007, 12:48 PM   #57
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Who "demanded" more voltage and runtime?

Seems like the other way around...the manufacturers are the ones who keep touting higher numbers, with newer cells every six months.
Its called supply and demand. If the user demand is there then the manufacture will supply.
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Old 11-11-2007, 12:48 PM   #58
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More voltage + more runtime = more sales and more profit.
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Old 11-11-2007, 01:20 PM   #59
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I don't get it! Why does one need all this massive voltage for? Normal 5-6 minute mains, 8 minute in 1/12. I could see if you were going to start pushing your time from 10-20 min mains or something like that. I think that kind of voltage is unrealistic for 5 min mains and brushless helps being more efficient to. The higher votage packs aren't going to make me win more races, more practice and track time will.
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Old 11-11-2007, 01:40 PM   #60
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The higher votage packs aren't going to make me win more races, more practice and track time will.
I like Lipo because I can practice with it and not have to worry about cycle life. I've been running the Carbon 3200s for a few months now, practice and all. Love it.
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