R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Electric On-Road

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 11-05-2007, 02:48 AM   #1
Tech Addict
 
MTX3-B's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Sepang Home of Malaysia's Formula One
Posts: 684
Trader Rating: 5 (100%+)
Default Stick Pack Battery Maintenance

Guys,

My buddy n I have 5 packs of IB4200WC and 1 pack of GP3700. We are are casual racers (we race M-Chassis) and more of bashers. I have the following equipments:-

i) Charger (2x) - Novak Millennium Version 1.20
ii) Discharger - Integy Indi Reactor 20 - discharge 20Amp
iii) Conditioner - Spintec Battery Manager Version 1

We will be attending the M-Chassis race in less than 2 weeks. I gave up NiMh cells as they do not have that longevity plus they need to be babysit...i dont have the luxury of time. Bought Team Orion Lipo 3200 but it is only used ocassionaly during bashing. Local track doesnt allow LIPO in race!

Here's the data i gathered for the 6 packs.

Setting on the chargers: Linear 6.0A & 4mV per cell

1) WC-1 IR=75.0
9.39V; 348mAh; 209s==> False Peak
9.57V; 3849mAh; 2771s
2) WC-2 IR=17.5
8.25V; 4627mAh; 2776s
3) WC-3 IR=72.5
9.15V; 1397mAh; 838s==> False Peak
9.63V; 2560mAh; 1536s
4) WC-4 IR=20.0
9.47V; 4187mAh; 2512s
5) WC-5 IR=47.0
9.59V; 4493mAh; 2696s
6) GP-1 IR=77.5
9.57V; 3109mAh; 2035s (charged at 5.5A)

Questions:-

a) Which is the best pack? The one with the lowest IR? I would have thought that having the lowest IR would have the mAh reading pretty close or above the rated capacity of the cells. See WC-2 with 4627mAh vs. WC-4 with 4187mAh.

b) We will be using Tamiya Sport Tuned motor for the race with 10-minute heat and final of 45 minutes. Would the batteries be able to finish the race at their rated true capacity? I reckon the amp draw for the motor would not exceed 2.0 Amp.

c) What would be the recommended practice to keep the batteries in good shape? Using the above said equipments, what would be the correct procedure to cycle the batts?

Sorry for the long winded questions, i just feel that i need to protect our investment to a good cause, with little money to spend in RC. Pitty in this part of the world, LIPO batts in racing has yet to take off.

Views/comments highly appreciated.

Thank you.
__________________
4WD -- TT01-E; TA-05; HMF 416 WE
FWD -- FF03 PRO
2WD -- M03-M; M05 PRO; X-EVO
MTX3-B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2007, 08:06 AM   #2
Tech Regular
 
wog....supraman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: PERTH
Posts: 489
Trader Rating: 3 (100%+)
Send a message via MSN to wog....supraman
Default

well i cant really answer all your questions but i can answer B.

If you charge the batteries at a high amp (e.g. 5amps) it wont last 45mins...no way will it do it. the amperage these motors draw with NO LOAD is anywhere between 1-1.6....dont forget once you put load on it, she'll be pulling alot more. I believe that sport tuned can easily pull 8 amps....thats a guesstamation (guess/estimate).....coz if i could make mine catch fire....i think it is pullin slightly more than 2amps...

BTW just 4 the record...i did an elaborate test on about 4 motor (2 sport tuneds, a mabuchi 540 and a 45t Integy lathe motor)

results from memory where

Sport tuned 1 1.34
Sport tuned 2 1.21
Mabuchi 0.95
Integy 0.77

@4 volts...average over 3 tests

then i did water break-in, which consisted of the 2 mins in water....dry/cleaning

then they were

sport tuned 1 1.15
sport tuned 2 1.04
mabuchi 0.85
integy did not under go this test but gave out a consistent .75-.78 result.

@4 volts

the mabuchi did not xceed an amp at any voltage i threw at it (7.2v)...

so these motors are capable of pulling well above 2amps

sorry bout the long arse post! :P
__________________
Tamiya TNX5.2R, Taniya TA05, Tamiya TB-02, Team Associated Factory Team B4, Twister CP V2, HoBao Pirate 10 MT, Tamiya TNX5.2R spare chassis x2, ebay spec submarine, HSP Rock crawler! FOR SALE!!! pm me
wog....supraman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2007, 09:18 AM   #3
Tech Regular
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 295
Trader Rating: 2 (100%+)
Default hmm

wat is the recommended discharging rate for stick packs?
hottapole is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2007, 09:45 AM   #4
Tech Fanatic
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Graduate Hospital
Posts: 966
Trader Rating: 9 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to Deznuts05
Default

check your Pm
Deznuts05 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2007, 11:22 AM   #5
Tech Elite
 
rccardr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: The Secret Underground Laboratory
Posts: 2,353
Trader Rating: 8 (100%+)
Default

With a brand new Sport Tuned (black can) 540, you'll get maybe (maybe) 18-20 minutes of run time, most likely with Battery #5 or #2 since they are the ones taking the most charge. The last 2-3 minutes will be noticeably slower (the car will feel flat) and the first 2-4 minutes will be much faster than the rest of your run. New motor always draws fewer amps.

Figure on two battery changes during the 45 minute Main. Should be fun!
__________________
I've never lost.
I've just been a little bit behind when time ran out...

RED DOT MOTORS- Fastest Titan 12T and silver can 540 motors in the known galaxy!
rccardr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2007, 10:45 PM   #6
Tech Addict
 
MTX3-B's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Sepang Home of Malaysia's Formula One
Posts: 684
Trader Rating: 5 (100%+)
Default

Thanks for the input. Appreciate it.
__________________
4WD -- TT01-E; TA-05; HMF 416 WE
FWD -- FF03 PRO
2WD -- M03-M; M05 PRO; X-EVO
MTX3-B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2007, 10:54 PM   #7
Tech Addict
 
MTX3-B's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Sepang Home of Malaysia's Formula One
Posts: 684
Trader Rating: 5 (100%+)
Default

rccardr,

data recorded (average amp) on my much more motor master on the sport tuned motors:-

A) Quick Test - 30seconds at 7.2V

Motor #1 -1.82A; RPM=29,010 (old motor)
Motor #2 -1.56A; RPM=25,680 (bashing motor)
Motor #3 -1.94A; RPM=32,970 (slightly new)

Motor#1 gives sligtly better amp draw compared to Motor#2. But at the track, Motor#2 is faster and punchier. I suppose like what people have said, the track is best dyno

B) I tried using the CTX-Test with 6 cell setting; Numbers recorded were much lower. Don't know why.

I can only recall (if i am not mistaken) someone said that i should look at the average amp reading on CTX-Test since the Quick Test results may be slightly skewed since the motor wont be chewing the juice from the battery at that constant rate for 30s...I don't know, just my guess.
__________________
4WD -- TT01-E; TA-05; HMF 416 WE
FWD -- FF03 PRO
2WD -- M03-M; M05 PRO; X-EVO
MTX3-B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2007, 05:19 AM   #8
Tech Elite
 
rccardr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: The Secret Underground Laboratory
Posts: 2,353
Trader Rating: 8 (100%+)
Default

I use a straight motor run at 5 volts to check amp draw and RPM, as I have found that data taken at that level is a better comparator than the CTX or 7.2 volts. At 5 volts, my black cans are running around 2.35 amps and 18,750 rpm. New motors run around 15,000 rpm and 1.6 amps. A new motor typically draws fewer amps because the brushes are not fully seated, so there is a limited path through which the current can flow.
__________________
I've never lost.
I've just been a little bit behind when time ran out...

RED DOT MOTORS- Fastest Titan 12T and silver can 540 motors in the known galaxy!
rccardr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2007, 05:41 AM   #9
Tech Regular
 
wog....supraman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: PERTH
Posts: 489
Trader Rating: 3 (100%+)
Send a message via MSN to wog....supraman
Default

I dont like the Much More Motor Master....thats y i sold mine, like the day after i got it....RPM readings can be way off....according 2 the MM MM my mabuchi did 44,000 rpms.....mmmm i think not....whilst my 15 double could only pull 38...which isnt right again...coz @6 volts it is supposd 2 do 25900 rpm...

just my 5 cents, as we dont have 2 cents here in Australia!


Quote:
Originally Posted by MTX3-B View Post
rccardr,

data recorded (average amp) on my much more motor master on the sport tuned motors:-

A) Quick Test - 30seconds at 7.2V

Motor #1 -1.82A; RPM=29,010 (old motor)
Motor #2 -1.56A; RPM=25,680 (bashing motor)
Motor #3 -1.94A; RPM=32,970 (slightly new)

Motor#1 gives sligtly better amp draw compared to Motor#2. But at the track, Motor#2 is faster and punchier. I suppose like what people have said, the track is best dyno

B) I tried using the CTX-Test with 6 cell setting; Numbers recorded were much lower. Don't know why.

I can only recall (if i am not mistaken) someone said that i should look at the average amp reading on CTX-Test since the Quick Test results may be slightly skewed since the motor wont be chewing the juice from the battery at that constant rate for 30s...I don't know, just my guess.
__________________
Tamiya TNX5.2R, Taniya TA05, Tamiya TB-02, Team Associated Factory Team B4, Twister CP V2, HoBao Pirate 10 MT, Tamiya TNX5.2R spare chassis x2, ebay spec submarine, HSP Rock crawler! FOR SALE!!! pm me
wog....supraman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2007, 06:18 PM   #10
Tech Elite
 
rccardr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: The Secret Underground Laboratory
Posts: 2,353
Trader Rating: 8 (100%+)
Default

Yep, both the MM Motor Master and Orion MPM need to have therubber bushing on the side of the case modified to accept the larger output shaft snout on the Mabuchi/Johnson case. Otherwise the sending unit and receiver won't communicate properly and the readout will be double, half, or 1.5 times actual rpm.
__________________
I've never lost.
I've just been a little bit behind when time ran out...

RED DOT MOTORS- Fastest Titan 12T and silver can 540 motors in the known galaxy!
rccardr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2007, 01:26 AM   #11
Tech Addict
 
MTX3-B's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Sepang Home of Malaysia's Formula One
Posts: 684
Trader Rating: 5 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rccardr View Post
I use a straight motor run at 5 volts to check amp draw and RPM, as I have found that data taken at that level is a better comparator than the CTX or 7.2 volts. At 5 volts, my black cans are running around 2.35 amps and 18,750 rpm. New motors run around 15,000 rpm and 1.6 amps. A new motor typically draws fewer amps because the brushes are not fully seated, so there is a limited path through which the current can flow.
Many thanks.
__________________
4WD -- TT01-E; TA-05; HMF 416 WE
FWD -- FF03 PRO
2WD -- M03-M; M05 PRO; X-EVO
MTX3-B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2007, 02:31 AM   #12
Tech Addict
 
MTX3-B's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Sepang Home of Malaysia's Formula One
Posts: 684
Trader Rating: 5 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rccardr View Post
Yep, both the MM Motor Master and Orion MPM need to have therubber bushing on the side of the case modified to accept the larger output shaft snout on the Mabuchi/Johnson case. Otherwise the sending unit and receiver won't communicate properly and the readout will be double, half, or 1.5 times actual rpm.
Agreed. Gave up on the rubber bushing. i had replaced mine and it kept getting rubbed by the rotating shaft of the motor. In the end, I gave up. I am only interested to know about the amp draw of the motors. But MM Motor Master is a spledid toy to fiddle with during my spare time
__________________
4WD -- TT01-E; TA-05; HMF 416 WE
FWD -- FF03 PRO
2WD -- M03-M; M05 PRO; X-EVO
MTX3-B is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
For Sale 3300 Stick Pack Battery + FREE POSTAGE ///M3 Australia For Sale/Trade 1 07-09-2007 06:42 AM
WTB I NEED A STICK 6 CELL BATTERY PACK FOR $5 SHIPPED pcr2nv R/C Items: Wanted to Buy 0 01-18-2006 06:44 PM
ProMatch Stick Pack Matched Battery Packs - NIB koabich R/C Items: For Sale/Trade 6 11-12-2005 12:04 AM
FS: QTY2 - GP 3300 stick pack, QTY1 - GP3700 stick pack WeatherB R/C Items: For Sale/Trade 16 09-11-2005 08:19 AM
Stick Pack Battery Maintenance badboy Electric On-Road 1 05-17-2002 05:53 AM



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 08:01 PM.


Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net