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Old 10-04-2007, 04:50 PM   #1
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Default tc5 setup question

When the setup sheet says 3.5 degree of toe in on the rear and 1.5 degree toe out on the front. is that per side or total?

Also when the say droom measured above ride hieght. How do I measure that with a hudy setup gauges?
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Old 10-04-2007, 05:23 PM   #2
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When the setup sheet says 3.5 degree of toe in on the rear and 1.5 degree toe out on the front. is that per side or total?

Also when the say droom measured above ride hieght. How do I measure that with a hudy setup gauges?
1. per wheel

2. you really only need a ride height gauge.
a. set your ride height.
b. set your camber
c. set your tweak
d. set droop
d1. put the car back on the set-up board with wheels mounted
d2. compress the chassis and release slowly, re-measuring the ride height, preferably at the tabs where the droop screws touch the chassis, and re-measure.
d3. if the measurement has changed after setting the tweak, this is because you had to account for chassis tweak, removing it is another show...
d4. gently lift the chassis from the pit board while holding the tires to the pit board, when the droop screws touch the chassis, hold it in place and re-measure the height at the droop screw. - that is droop over ride height.

It may take some practice to not bend the chassis in half (exaggeration) while pushing on the tires and lifting the chassis. Other people will say that you should only have to lift the chassis and not put any pressure on the wheels. there is solid theory on this, when a car lifts that tire going into the corner, in theory, they arm will not put anymore pressure on that screw than just the weight of the arm. I choose to hold the tire to the bench so that I can feel when the wheel would actually lift.

It is important to measure the ride height and droop from the same spots on the chassis every time. Being just a little fore or aft from the same spots will vary the settings, and changing little things at a time to zero in on a tune that works for the track you are working on will all be for not due to inconsistent measurements.

It's not that hard a practice to learn. But it can surely be a setting that messes up a chassis.
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Old 10-04-2007, 06:54 PM   #3
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When the setup sheet says 3.5 degree of toe in on the rear and 1.5 degree toe out on the front. is that per side or total?

Also when the say droom measured above ride hieght. How do I measure that with a hudy setup gauges?
Don't let the 3.5 toe setting confuse you. This settings will be set using the Arm Mount Shims behind the Rear Arm Mount Blocks. You will usually end up using shims under all 8 Arm Mounts, just more or less on some locations according to the setup sheet.
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Old 10-04-2007, 09:14 PM   #4
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d3. if the measurement has changed after setting the tweak, this is because you had to account for chassis tweak, removing it is another show...
Let's talk about tweak, how do you set it? I am in the process of buying a tweak gauge, I really like the corally one. Any suggestions here.

Also

When measuring the droop, you say to hold the tires, but where do you lift the car from. I remember something about using a razor blade an dlifting in the center of the chassis until the one wheel lifts,,,,, any ways I was hoping to find an easy way to just use the droop gauge, even though I understand what you guys are saying to do. Why wouldn't they give setups based on the droop gauge in the kit. Does it have to do with different tire sizes or something?


One last thing ( i think) how does the rwd shim work, it says 3 degree. What does that mean?

Thanks for the help, you guys are really helpful though.
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Old 10-05-2007, 05:19 AM   #5
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bump up
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Old 10-05-2007, 07:22 AM   #6
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Let's talk about tweak, how do you set it? I am in the process of buying a tweak gauge, I really like the corally one. Any suggestions here.

Also

When measuring the droop, you say to hold the tires, but where do you lift the car from. I remember something about using a razor blade an dlifting in the center of the chassis until the one wheel lifts,,,,, any ways I was hoping to find an easy way to just use the droop gauge, even though I understand what you guys are saying to do. Why wouldn't they give setups based on the droop gauge in the kit. Does it have to do with different tire sizes or something?


One last thing ( i think) how does the rwd shim work, it says 3 degree. What does that mean?

Thanks for the help, you guys are really helpful though.
All good questions, I will try to answer them all. First let me say you need a setup board or some other flat surface to make all of your adjustments on.

Tweak gauges made by just about anyone are better than not having one. Personally I have the MIP Tweak Station and a Hudy Tweak Station that came with my Hudy Ultimate 1/10 Setup Kit. I compared the tweak readings between them and they both return exact readings.

Measuring droop can be a confusing topic because of how the term "droop" is used. DROOP is how far the suspension are drops when the chassis lifts. Hudy refers to this is two ways, DOWNSTOP and DROOP. When you use the droop gauge that comes with the TC5, what your actually measuring/adjusting is the DOWNSTOP, not droop. This adjustment is the initial adjustment in a sequence of adjustments. This adjustment is done w/o wheels or shocks connected.

Droop can be measured with a ride height gauge or ruler. The TC5 does not come with a real ride height gauge or ruler, so you need to buy a quality ride height gauge that measures from 1mm up to at least 8mm (for on-road), and one that provides better accuracy than .5mm. Hudy, Integy, and others make some nice quality ride height gauges. Before you measure your droop, you should first have previously set your DOWNSTOP and RIDE HEIGHT, CAMBER and TOE, then have re-checked ride height. Once all this is down, you set your droop. To set a droop of 2mm, first measure your ride height on the Right Rear corner. You measure 4.5mm ride height on your gauge. Now place your gauge at 6.5mm under that same spot on the Right Rear of the chassis. This will have lifted the Right Rear corner an additional 2mm. Next, adjust the DOWNSTOP screw to where the Right Rear tire is just beginning to lift off the surface. If you adjust the screw too far and the tire is not touching the surface, back the screw out slightly until the tire is touching the surface again, but at the point of just lifting off the surface. Once this is done, you have set your DROOP at 2mm ABOVE RIDE HEIGHT. Now repeat this step on all remaining corners of the suspension.

To confirm your droop settings are consistent on the left and right, front or rear, you will want to lift the chassis with the tires mounted and look to see that when the chassis is lifted that both the LEFT and RIGHT tires lift off the surface equally. If not, readjust the droop slightly until they do. Again, TWEAK must be adjusted first. With the TC5, the front and rear shock towers have a hole drilled directly in the middle. I use this a point to lift the chassis from while checking the droop. The central hole provides a neutral lift spot for you. Use anything that will fit in the hole that does not grab the chassis, you won't something smooth. A small hex wrench or screwdriver works good.

Tire Size is everything when working with foam tires. When the tires wear down, or are trued, the diameter changes, thus changing your ride height. When the ride height changes, your droop has to be re-setup too.

Lastly, the Rear shims and toe adjustment. The TC5 comes with 0 rear uprights/hubs. This means that the Rear Toe has to be adjusted by placing shims behind the Rear Arm Mounts. On the setup sheets you will see this listed as FWD and RWD Arm Mounts. The column on the left are the REAR only settings, the column on the right are the LEFT only settings. With this in mind, looking at the left column, REAR, we will look at the FWD and RWD Arm Mount Shims. If you have a setup sheet that is looking for 3 rear toe using 0 Rear Hubs, you will need to have 3 additional shimming behind the RWD Arm Mount. On the middle right half of the setup sheet it shows that the shims come in 3 sizes, 1, 1.5, and 2. Combine this to get the needed shim amount. If you have a caliper to measure the thickness, it can help you from making a mistake.

Last edited by kn7671; 10-05-2007 at 07:34 AM.
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Old 10-05-2007, 07:28 AM   #7
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Old 10-05-2007, 10:05 AM   #8
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Man thanks for the help. You just gave me the recipe I needed to understand some of the things that were hanging me up.

Thanks for the help.
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Old 10-05-2007, 11:44 AM   #9
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kn
thanks for the awesome info that will help alot of guys to understand things it helped me alot!!!

also please post some info on the tweak if you would thats always been a unknown for me !!!
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Old 10-05-2007, 11:59 AM   #10
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this is the stuff that makes these forums worth while.
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Old 10-05-2007, 04:40 PM   #11
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kn7176, great explanation of setting droop. Ever consider rewriting the instruction manual for the TC5?

Thanks, Pete
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Old 10-05-2007, 05:41 PM   #12
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kn7176, great explanation of setting droop. Ever consider rewriting the instruction manual for the TC5?

Thanks, Pete
As a matter of fact, Yes.

I would be happy to take a paying job for Associated. I found several mistakes on the TC5 manual. I would like to QA their manuals and add more detailed technical assembly information to all of Associated's manuals.
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Old 05-04-2009, 01:45 PM   #13
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As a matter of fact, Yes.

I would be happy to take a paying job for Associated. I found several mistakes on the TC5 manual. I would like to QA their manuals and add more detailed technical assembly information to all of Associated's manuals.

Great job guy. You got my vote. Sincere thanks
from Memphis.
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