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Old 10-16-2007, 08:59 AM   #106
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Since there really is no sportsman going to major events like you said, It might be a good idea to get rid of stock for large events leaving only 19 turn and MOD.
Stock is a class, not an ability level. If you want a class for an ability level you have to throw away all the rules for every division, within every sanctioning body the world over, and start new. Are there novice drivers in stock, yup. You gotta start somewhere. If the local tracks where beginners cut their teeth don't offer a beginner type class, then they are short sighted.

I race stock because I don't like burning up parts and tires every other run. Until I have the ability to drive a mod chassis at the top levels that will net full rides, it is not an option.
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Old 10-16-2007, 09:00 AM   #107
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I must say Cherry I do like your post. I've been running off road all summer.
Every off road track around here including dirt oval is healthy and thriving.

Heres the kicker. Not one stock class. Strictly novice in stock, and one particular track strictly enforced by age limit.

I agree 100% its the way it was when I started racing. Stock was engineered to get you into it and designed to make you want to step up to a class you could open the can.
I believe we have veered off of that format to much.
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Old 10-16-2007, 09:05 AM   #108
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UN4
You understand .....

What kind of beginner is willing to compete against a guy in stock with thousand`s in equipment & sponsored by a motor tuner company ?

and

What does a experience drivers do after they learn how to compete against these pro stock driver`s ?
They don`t have the ability to keep improving when no one is racing the Mod class`s .

These driver`s also get discouraged because they can`t keep improving...

Improving your skill`s and seeing improvement is the real carrot in our sport for racer`s!!!




Yet still no one will move up in the Sedan class`s....

Bad !


Then they make thread`s like this to fix stock , but they ignore the real problem...
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Old 10-16-2007, 09:14 AM   #109
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UN4
You understand .....

What kind of beginner is willing to compete against a guy in stock with thousand`s in equipment & sponsored by a motor tuner company ?


Bad !

Yet still no one will move up in the Sedan class`s....


Then they make thread`s like this to fix stock , but they ignore the real problem...
I guess you could say I've seen the promise land. Off roaders are avoiding stock like the plague around here.
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Old 10-16-2007, 09:46 AM   #110
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I agree 100% its the way it was when I started racing. Stock was engineered to get you into it and designed to make you want to step up to a class you could open the can.
I believe we have veered off of that format to much.
I addressed that in my post above.

Yes, stock was a beginners class years-and-years ago because it was S-L-O-W.

As I pointed out, stock today is just as fast as mod was in 1987.

The driving skill of a beginner isn't any better today than it was 20 years ago, but we're asking him to start out in a class that's waaaay too fast for him.

The rest of us who still race stock, feel we're going the same speed that we did 20 yrs ago in "Modified". The 19Turns are the same speed as modified 10 yrs ago.

Even racing 19Turn, much less mod, is getting tough on equipment. Some guys have the skill, but don't have the wallet to race it or feel obligated to use up all their vacation time to run 3 big national events per year.

That's why I suggested the opposite approach...slow Mod down to 19-turn type speeds (maybe slightly faster even). Make it accessible to a broader group of people.

Then, eliminate 19Turn. Leave Stock alone and rename it "pro-stock".

Lastly, make a "new" stock class with much slower motors for the beginners we need to keep this thing going. (Refer to my phrase above in boldface).

I know some people will complain about slowing down modified, but those people are in the minority. (It's also the same people who don't have to pay for most of the equipment that it uses up) Biggest on-road race of the year, and there's only 44 racers in mod foam, 34 in mod rubber, and 35 in mod 1/12.

I completely understand the attraction people have with unlimited modified. They love hearing the motors whistle, parts flying off cars from a single mistake, smoke pouring from the car as the motor or speedo melts, etc. Unfortunately, it's just not practical.
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Old 10-16-2007, 09:53 AM   #111
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If that were to be the new division break-down, then let's use another old standard. Make the new amateur division race with silver cans. This will take away the motor tuning aspect from the drivers and force them to tune the cars. We have been running them in our sportsman division with pan cars and 4 cells. They hold up great.
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Old 10-16-2007, 10:07 AM   #112
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I switch from off-road to on-road in the fall. Each time I bring out the touring car I am instantly reminded how much more technical and difficult they are to drive. There's really no comparison between off road racing and on road (this is in no way a comment on which is better).

The dilema is that there is simply too much power and not enough traction for the average driver. And the easiest way to reduce power and increase traction is to switch to 5 cell. I am well aware that an excessively geared car could put excess strain on the motors and batteries, but, I consider that a step in the right direction. It's going to cost you if you push the equipment beyond its limits.

But where does that leave lipos? I'm not sure. Why cant they make a 3v cell?
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Old 10-16-2007, 10:11 AM   #113
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You must be running on the most planted offroad track ever.
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Old 10-16-2007, 10:27 AM   #114
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back here the organizers tell the seasoned racers not to join the stock races and instead leave it to the newbies. out of respect and willingness to help grow the hobby locally, all the seasoned racers comply.

maybe more than setting rules on kit and electronics, the organizers should also help take the lead to push people up to the faster classes.

when i was a noob (i consider myself one, still) i didn't want to "settle" for an "OK" kit... i wanted the best what little money i had could buy. so instead of shelling out X amount in cash to buy a brand new "OK" kit, i looked around for a more competitive kit for around the same cost or lower. i'd like to think that it would be natural for people not to settle for an "OK" kit if they wanted to get into racing, even in the club level.
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Old 10-16-2007, 10:37 AM   #115
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Somebody mentioned earlier something about how the European races (and the rest of the world for that matter) don't have an issue with sponsored stock racers cleaning up at every race, and to me they know how to do things across the pond...

I always wonder, why does North America seem to always be different from the rest of the world? Everybody outside of North America runs rubber tires only. Running rubber tires will slow the cars down, making it easier for more guys to step up to the Modified class. If you look at this years IIC race, Stock Foam TQ was a few seconds quicker then the Modified Rubber TQ... So my point is running rubber will help slow the cars down a bit. And flame me if you want but right now nobody can say foam lasts longer then rubber or visa versa... We are at the point where they both last around the same length...

Next I think we should realign the classes we have... This is what I would like to see...

SPEC Class - Any chassis, Rubber Tires, Silver Can Motors and Stick Pack Batteries.

23 Turn - Any Chassis, Rubber Tires, 6 Cell

Modified - Any Chassis, Rubber Tires, Brushed/Brushless/Lipo, 5 or 6 Cell

If you make it a little harder to run multiple classes with one car, it will make you concentrate more on one class rather then having some Pro's "cherry pick" in the slower classes...
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Old 10-16-2007, 10:37 AM   #116
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"You must be running on the most planted offroad track ever"

Hardly! Dont get me wrong, I'm not trying to say that obtaining results racing off road is easier. I'm just trying to point out they are completely different and just because rules worked on dirt does not mean they will work for carpet or pavement.
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Old 10-16-2007, 10:46 AM   #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timmay70 View Post
Stock is a class, not an ability level. If you want a class for an ability level you have to throw away all the rules for every division, within every sanctioning body the world over, and start new. Are there novice drivers in stock, yup. You gotta start somewhere. If the local tracks where beginners cut their teeth don't offer a beginner type class, then they are short sighted.

I race stock because I don't like burning up parts and tires every other run. Until I have the ability to drive a mod chassis at the top levels that will net full rides, it is not an option.
I know for a fact that Europeans does not have any sponsored drivers in Stock....Who said anything about throwing away rules around the world in every division. You said that you were worried about diluting the classes even more and I just suggested that big events should just run 19 and mod since large events are for hardcore racers?
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Old 10-16-2007, 10:49 AM   #118
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And flame me if you want but right now nobody can say foam lasts longer then rubber or visa versa... We are at the point where they both last around the same length...
Foam tires will last me 3 - 4 race nights in stock (club racing). We have drivers that won't blink at replacing rubber tires after one run if that is what it takes to be fast. Personally, I will find another hobby than race rubbers on carpet.
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Old 10-16-2007, 10:54 AM   #119
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Thats a great point - foam tires do last a lot longer in stock.

It might be one of the reasons a lot of fast guys stay in stock. Just because they are fast does not mean they have the extra money to spend on running mod. A lot of guys probably stay in stock because they cant afford to run mod or even 19T.
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Old 10-16-2007, 11:00 AM   #120
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"You must be running on the most planted offroad track ever"

Hardly! Dont get me wrong, I'm not trying to say that obtaining results racing off road is easier. I'm just trying to point out they are completely different and just because rules worked on dirt does not mean they will work for carpet or pavement.
The only difference is stock has not become the only class racer`s race in off-road....
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