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Old 10-16-2007, 09:05 PM   #136
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Factory modified = unlimited
Open modified = 10 or 12 turn motor limit or 5.5 or 6.5 BL limit
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Old 10-16-2007, 09:07 PM   #137
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One nice thing that they did at the Stock Carpet Invitational at the Gate back in April was that the Invite class's handout motors were all tuned to be the same (by EAMotorsports), and only 2 seconds covered the top 8 drivers in the A Main. That's what we need for regular stock classes, but in an economical fashion.

Otherwise, all we end up with is the R/C version of Formula 1. In other words, if you don't spend mega $$$$, you're driving a Super Aguri or Spyker, and the sponsored guys are driving McLarens or Ferraris.
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Old 10-17-2007, 02:34 AM   #138
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I would like to see ROAR combine the motor classes between brushed and brushless. Give the racers a choice at the National level. At a club level this can be done now or something else that fits your clubs needs.

I am a FIRM believer to practice like you are going to race. It makes no sense for me to run brushless right now because when I get to Cleveland or any big race I am going to be handed a Core stocker and an Element 19t. Get rid of handout motors, do a better job on tech and combine the brushed and brushless motors.

Stock:
27t brushed or 17.5 brushless

13.5 brushless needs to be its own class or eliminated. It is an in between stock and 19 turn motor. We have tested and proven the 17.5 is much closer to a stock motor. 13.5 can be quite a bit faster if you know what you're doing.

19 turn/Pro Stock:
19 turn brushed/24 degree fixed timing or an outlaw 19 turn with adjustable timing since the BL's are adjustable or 10.5 brushless

Open modified:
10 turn brushed motor limit or 5.5 or 6.5 brushless (whatever the equal)

Factory modified:
Strap it in and run the hottest thing you can handle.
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Old 10-17-2007, 02:50 AM   #139
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Right on Rob, I couldn't have said it any better. This is only a compromise for now as I belive eventually it will all go to brushless but this is the fairest way to run the classes right now.
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Old 10-17-2007, 05:56 AM   #140
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My post ignored just as the SPORTSMAN PROFILE on the NOVAK ESC's was ignored!! LOL The REV LIMITER FOR STOCK is the easiest fix... This is a thread about STOCK TC right?
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Old 10-17-2007, 09:41 AM   #141
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Originally Posted by Joel Lagace View Post
My post ignored just as the SPORTSMAN PROFILE on the NOVAK ESC's was ignored!! LOL The REV LIMITER FOR STOCK is the easiest fix... This is a thread about STOCK TC right?
Similar ideas were kicked around in other forums. The consensus was that this was a form of "restrictor plate" racing. This type of racing was shot down by everyone.
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Old 10-17-2007, 09:47 AM   #142
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Originally Posted by KyLayfield View Post
Mike- How fast is a 10 Turn compared to a 19T? I remember that the Reedy Race use to limit the motor to a 10T and EFRA had a 12T rule (not sure if they still do). What do you think of limiting Modified to a higher wind like that? I never really thought about the speed of stock compared to 15 years ago. A lot of that makes perfect sense.
Not sure how fast a 10 Turn would be compared to a 19 Turn. I'm sure it's a similar leap as jumping from 27-to-19.

All races used to have a 10 Turn limit for mod. Problem is, they would be cranking a ton of timing into them and would still blow up. If there was to be another "turn limit", there would also need to be a maximum allowable timing as well.
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Old 10-17-2007, 10:16 AM   #143
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RBLove - this is the ticket....
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Old 10-17-2007, 11:39 AM   #144
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Similar ideas were kicked around in other forums. The consensus was that this was a form of "restrictor plate" racing. This type of racing was shot down by everyone.

The biggest problem is in stock and the racers mentallity. What joel brought up was a good idea so that stock would be slowed down for beginners. Response it gets shot down as restrictor plate racing....

Another Idea was to have a totally new stock class. Response stock racers complained again saying that this will thin down the racing even more.

Another Idea was to have stock lifers move up and leave the class to beginners. Response, the beginners just need to man up....


All these changes are being thrown around and the reality is some of these guys want to hold court... Sad to say but I don't see any charges happening in the near future.
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Old 10-17-2007, 12:04 PM   #145
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For national level events where sportsmen are not likely to show up, this class is not required, and probably should not be offered. However, like I eluded to earlier, every track should have a sportsman class. It in some way should limit power and have a chassis where less emphasis is put on motor/batteries and more on driving.

We have a class like this locally and it is thriving. 10th pans with silver cans and 4 cells. Most people here use the Speed Spec from Speed Merchant. There are others available, too. When these drivers are ready, sedan or 12th scale is the next logical steps.

This is something that should be handled on the local levels, as it doesn't usually pertain to national events. If you see the need for a class like this, it's probably over due. Stop talking about it and make it happen, we did.
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Old 10-17-2007, 12:21 PM   #146
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This thread is pretty funny.

Nobody wants to be a loser, yet in racing cars, there is only one winner - first place. The only way you can make every racer happy is if you make them all winners. If everybody is a winner, then its not racing.

The best part is that the current system of having 10 cars in each main that is sorted by timed qualifers already solves what this whole thread is about. If you finished in the A-main, your a fast stock racer, If you finished in a lower main, your a slow stock racer. If you want to do better, you'll have to put more effort into it.

I really don't see anything wrong with that system.
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Old 10-17-2007, 01:23 PM   #147
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This thread is pretty funny.

Nobody wants to be a loser, yet in racing cars, there is only one winner - first place. The only way you can make every racer happy is if you make them all winners. If everybody is a winner, then its not racing.

The best part is that the current system of having 10 cars in each main that is sorted by timed qualifers already solves what this whole thread is about. If you finished in the A-main, your a fast stock racer, If you finished in a lower main, your a slow stock racer. If you want to do better, you'll have to put more effort into it.

I really don't see anything wrong with that system.
Sounds ideal but the main thing with sedan is the entry cost and Stock class is no longer cost effective like intended and it is a lot faster than it used to be which is not beginner friendly considering how small most of the tracks are in the U.S. . I haven't raced stock in a while and when I did it was a lot simpler and a little bit slower which helps with drivers progress.
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Old 10-17-2007, 01:38 PM   #148
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Originally Posted by Francis M. View Post
The biggest problem is in stock and the racers mentallity. What joel brought up was a good idea so that stock would be slowed down for beginners. Response it gets shot down as restrictor plate racing....

Another Idea was to have a totally new stock class. Response stock racers complained again saying that this will thin down the racing even more.

Another Idea was to have stock lifers move up and leave the class to beginners. Response, the beginners just need to man up....


All these changes are being thrown around and the reality is some of these guys want to hold court... Sad to say but I don't see any charges happening in the near future.

-You know what i just dont buy it... Running a rev limiter or restrictor does not 100% mean that stock has to be slowed down. IT can be but it does not mean it has to be slowed down. If you enforce a limiter this will take away that gap between the off the shelf motors and mid range packs and the blueprinted motors and 100$ team packs. Most of the time the extra money only accounts for small leaps in performance. Lets just say a no budget guy can run 2 to 3 tenths faster with his pro power then when he runs mid range motor and and battereis. Would it really be the end of the world if the limiter brought down lap times by a few tenths to equilize the motors and battereis?

-new stock class is not needed. Thinning sucks. But what peolple need to realize that many clubs can only really sustain enough entries for one maybe 2 classes of racing. At my club 19T was the #1 for years but now gone, everyone is racing stock rubber, newbies and 15year vets like myself. WE all get allong and we help all the new guys out. We all make it clear that the new guys gear is not holding them back and that they dont need to spend but rather drive to go faster. One of the fast guys makes a point of slapping in his old 3300 from time to time just to show its he still tops the charts with lower grade cells...

-having guys move up is only possible if there is somewhere to go, at my track there is no where to go. But again we dont have to many guys crying that they get beat buy gear mainly cuz we go out of our way to ensure all new comers realize that 10years racing is why some guys are way faster no always the gear. ITs stock racing we got lifers runnig stock that never make the A its life only one winner per race...


With everyone wanting lipo and brushless to take away alot of the work we have to do with brushed and nihm, people are looking to cut costs and save time. Im not so sure a restrictor plate or limiter in stock racing would be such a bad thing... AGain this thread has a bunch of other crap about 19t and mod wich has no place hear the topic is stock racing..... IF NASCAR can feild 40+cars a race with a restrictor plate and F1 under 20 cars with unlimited there must be something attracting both fans and drivers to nascar? IT sure the hell aint the technology or good looks of the cars? Montoya,Almedinger,TRacy,Villenuve,Frachitti,ect ect and other F1/cart champions are moving to nascar... sure its money... but its also the racing.
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Old 10-17-2007, 01:55 PM   #149
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.... IF NASCAR can feild 40+cars a race with a restrictor plate and F1 under 20 cars with unlimited there must be something attracting both fans and drivers to nascar? IT sure the hell aint the technology or good looks of the cars? Montoya,Almedinger,TRacy,Villenuve,Frachitti,ect ect and other F1/cart champions are moving to nascar... sure its money... but its also the racing.
Not so good an analogy, IMO. FIA requires teams only have 2 drivers per team to compete. Each team must produce their own chassis (ground up design), and must pass scrutineering. Each team must prove to FIA they will be viable and meet other criteria. There are only so many teams that meet FIA requirements for competition. Otherwise, there are a ton of drivers that would rather race out their careers in F1. Comparing to NASCAR where any Joe can buy a chassis, engine and jamb a certified driver into the car to compete, is a bad comparison.

Local tracks need to police their own. This has nothing to do with ROAR. ROAR allows local tracks to set thier own rules, look up level one races in the rule book.
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Old 10-17-2007, 02:41 PM   #150
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"NASCAR where any Joe can buy a chassis, engine and jamb a certified driver into the car to compete...."

ISn't this exaclty what rc racing is? Any JOE can buy a chassis,motor and engine and go racing....At a reasonable budget??? NASCAR has pretty strick rule set no? To me the only difference between stock TC and NASCAR is the scale and the fact that we dont restrict engine output. (oh and about 500,000$ or so...)


LOCAL clubs can set there own rules sure, but the basis of most club rules start with a ROAR foundation.
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