R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Electric On-Road

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 09-23-2007, 09:36 AM   #16
Tech Elite
 
macnkitty2002's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Montgomery, AL
Posts: 4,920
Trader Rating: 7 (100%+)
Default

http://www.harrisproductsgroup.com/c...les/fluxes.asp
scroll down to "Stay-Clean Liquid Flux". that's what i have been using for all of my electronics for a long time without any problem. it's the flux that came in a combo pack with solder at my LHS, and it was the flux/solder that my LHS recommended. however, it says this on the bottle and on the web site.
Quote:
A general purpose zinc chloride flux for soldering with all soft solders. Use with tin/lead solder, tin/antimony solder, Stay-Brite solder, for soldering virtually all metals, expcept aluminum, magnesium or titanium. Not recommended for use in electrical or electronic applications.
if it's not for electronics, then why does my LHS recommend it to me?!?
__________________
Team Associated RC10B4.2
Losi Rock Rey
macnkitty2002 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2007, 09:37 AM   #17
Tech Elite
 
macnkitty2002's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Montgomery, AL
Posts: 4,920
Trader Rating: 7 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
The Carbon-reinforced plastic parts on the 05R actually have a tiny bit of conductivity. I doubt it's enough to cause a short but who knows? Was your esc solder tabs touching the rear bulkhead stiffener?
i don't recall thay they were touching, but they were certainly VERY close. that actually sounds like a logical reason, because my chassis does conduct electricity on carpet. when i was first running it on carpet during the summer, the chassis would build up a charge and discharge on my servo, this shorting it out. maybe the solder tabs arched to the chassis and to each other?
__________________
Team Associated RC10B4.2
Losi Rock Rey
macnkitty2002 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2007, 09:41 AM   #18
Tech Champion
 
Scottrik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Billings, MT
Posts: 6,212
Trader Rating: 245 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by macnkitty2002 View Post
however, i looked at the liquid flux, "Stay Clean" flux to be precise, and the labeling said "not recommended for electrics or electronics". i have been using this for a while now on all of my electronics without a problem. however, could it be that it is flammable, and that the terminals heated up so that the residual flux from after soldering ignited? but the ESC was not even on throttle. i am dumbfounded and extremely suprised that this would happen with a Novak product.
The reason it says "not for electronics" is that it is most likely an acid flux. It may be possible that the acid flux got where it shouldn't and ate away something on the pcb, or...

Acid flux is for joining metals, etc that will be rinsed/neutralized THOROUGHLY after soldering is complete. Otherwise all sorts of corrosion is possible. Get some proper paste flux.
__________________
Congressmen should wear uniforms like NASCAR drivers so we can identify their corporate sponsors.

THE REVOLUTION WILL NOT BE TELEVISED -Gil Scott-Heron (1949-2011)
Scottrik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2007, 09:44 AM   #19
Tech Elite
 
macnkitty2002's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Montgomery, AL
Posts: 4,920
Trader Rating: 7 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
The reason it says "not for electronics" is that it is most likely an acid flux. It may be possible that the acid flux got where it shouldn't and ate away something on the pcb, or...

Acid flux is for joining metals, etc that will be rinsed/neutralized THOROUGHLY after soldering is complete. Otherwise all sorts of corrosion is possible. Get some proper paste flux.
since the positive and negative battery terminals are only about 1.5mm apart, there is a possibility that the residual flux could have bridged the two connections and caused it to short. i don't think it is the fan that caused the fire. i'm pretty sure it was the flux now.
__________________
Team Associated RC10B4.2
Losi Rock Rey
macnkitty2002 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2007, 10:19 AM   #20
Tech Addict
 
swopemike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 526
Trader Rating: 6 (100%+)
Default

Connecting the actual fan should do nothing to hurt the system unless it created a total short (pins touching each other, wires shorted to each other, etc). And simple DC fans, even connected backwards, just run backwards, just like a brushed motor. Also I believe that using a typical tiny 12V computer cooling fan in 6V service would just run the fan slow. Certainly wouldn't expect flame-thrower.

Shorting any connections against the chassis, whether power, sensor, fan, cap, whatever, is always bad. You may need to either insulate that edge of the ESC or turn it another direction or whatever it takes if there's any chance of that. In my carbon fiber T3 chassis I covered it in electrical tape around the ESC.

Actually this sounds like a short across the power (red/black) terminals of the ESC resulting in the cap releasing all its energy instantly. It could also be some internal failure of the ESC because what you describe sounds like that too. I'm just guessing... you will want to send it back (or have shop where you bought it send it back) to Novak as they have ways to diagnose it. You could also send email to Novak and confirm with them, but that's what they'll probably tell you. When they look at it they will be able to tell what happened to the ESC.. although might not pinpoint what if anything you did wrong.

My experience with Novak is they will be as generous as they can be in helping get you back out on the track at minimal cost and time. I have found they really stand behind their products.

[email protected] (customer service)
[email protected] (ESC specialist)
www.teamnovak.com (customer support and instructions for returns)
swopemike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2007, 10:31 AM   #21
Tech Elite
 
macnkitty2002's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Montgomery, AL
Posts: 4,920
Trader Rating: 7 (100%+)
Default

thanks for the input swopemike. i will send it back to Novak and have them take a look at it. does it sound like to you that the residual flux that was on the solder joints of the power terminals could have bridged and caused a short? i did not clean off the rest of the flux because no one has ever told me to do so and i have never done it before. it is acid flux, which like someone said above is used to join metals, and the acid could have corroded and caused the two terminals to arch via the residual flux.
__________________
Team Associated RC10B4.2
Losi Rock Rey
macnkitty2002 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2007, 11:15 AM   #22
Tech Master
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,052
Trader Rating: 16 (94%+)
Default

I doubt you even need a fan on the ESC running a 27T CO27 motor.
kn7671 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2007, 12:26 PM   #23
Tech Elite
 
joe of loath's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Bristol, England, United Kingdom
Posts: 4,857
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

just to say, all fans i have found are brushless. i have NEVER seen a brushed fan, and i take apart alot of computers!
__________________
HPI E-Firestorm - Tamiya TA05 racer (carbon chassis, 10.5 brushless etc) - LRP Blast S10 BX - Revo 2.5r truggy conversion (in progress)
joe of loath is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2007, 02:40 PM   #24
Tech Elite
 
macnkitty2002's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Montgomery, AL
Posts: 4,920
Trader Rating: 7 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
just to say, all fans i have found are brushless. i have NEVER seen a brushed fan, and i take apart alot of computers!
and why would that make a difference here?
__________________
Team Associated RC10B4.2
Losi Rock Rey
macnkitty2002 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2007, 03:17 PM   #25
Tech Addict
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: California
Posts: 605
Trader Rating: 2 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by macnkitty2002 View Post
and why would that make a difference here?
they don't spin when hooked up backwards
__________________
www.freerice.com
Help hungry people while learning.
smojoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2007, 05:57 PM   #26
Tech Elite
 
macnkitty2002's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Montgomery, AL
Posts: 4,920
Trader Rating: 7 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
they don't spin when hooked up backwards
then i guess i had i wired correctly because it was spinning.
__________________
Team Associated RC10B4.2
Losi Rock Rey
macnkitty2002 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2007, 09:31 PM   #27
Tech Master
 
sim600's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,624
Trader Rating: 15 (100%+)
Send a message via ICQ to sim600
Default

How did you fit the XBR into the 05R, btw? When I test fitted, it didn't look like it fit. I was going to try again when I had more time, but now I'm a bit scared.
sim600 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-2007, 07:46 AM   #28
Tech Addict
 
swopemike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 526
Trader Rating: 6 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by joe of loath View Post
just to say, all fans i have found are brushless. i have NEVER seen a brushed fan, and i take apart alot of computers!
Quote:
Originally Posted by macnkitty2002 View Post
and why would that make a difference here?
Not sure but I think he's just correcting my misunderstanding.

My point was the fan should run backwards. I didn't know they were BL - I thought they were BR because they only have 2 wires. Every 2-wire motor I've seen (AC or DC) works that way. Joe do these computer fans just run backwards if you reverse the red and black ?
swopemike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-2007, 07:52 AM   #29
Tech Addict
 
swopemike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 526
Trader Rating: 6 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by macnkitty2002 View Post
thanks for the input swopemike. i will send it back to Novak and have them take a look at it. does it sound like to you that the residual flux that was on the solder joints of the power terminals could have bridged and caused a short? i did not clean off the rest of the flux because no one has ever told me to do so and i have never done it before. it is acid flux, which like someone said above is used to join metals, and the acid could have corroded and caused the two terminals to arch via the residual flux.
I've never used acid flux. However, acidic materials tend to conduct electricity... they have ions available to pass current. So it wouldn't surprise me. As many people have said, switch to an electronic-safe solder and flux. I currently use rosin core 63/37 from Radio Shack, but remember it contains lead, so you assume some toxicity risks. 63/37 is the best solder I've used. But I'm thinking I'll change to non-lead solder when my current rolls run out.
swopemike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-2007, 09:59 AM   #30
Tech Elite
 
macnkitty2002's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Montgomery, AL
Posts: 4,920
Trader Rating: 7 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
How did you fit the XBR into the 05R, btw? When I test fitted, it didn't look like it fit. I was going to try again when I had more time, but now I'm a bit scared.
i used three strips of foam tape to get the circuit board "ears" to fit over the tub wall. this gave it enough clearance to fit in the space behind the motor.

Quote:
I've never used acid flux. However, acidic materials tend to conduct electricity... they have ions available to pass current. So it wouldn't surprise me. As many people have said, switch to an electronic-safe solder and flux. I currently use rosin core 63/37 from Radio Shack, but remember it contains lead, so you assume some toxicity risks. 63/37 is the best solder I've used. But I'm thinking I'll change to non-lead solder when my current rolls run out.
i use Radioshack solder as well, 60/40 i believe. i will go and get some proper electronics flux today too.
since my ESC is probably fried already, do you think i could resolder on the extra motor wire using proper flux to see if it still by some chance works? do you think Novak would notice that i tried the ESC again if i send it in for repair? maybe all that happened was that the two battery terminals shorted and sparked. or if it was shooting flames at me, is it pretty much fried? i don't really have anything to lose, so i don't see a reason why not to test it out again.
__________________
Team Associated RC10B4.2
Losi Rock Rey
macnkitty2002 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
IB 4200 hissing / venting bin Electric On-Road 23 01-10-2008 04:44 AM
Hissing IB4200, which of the lot is the culprit? bigbutstupid Electric On-Road 4 12-26-2007 12:05 PM
Hissing sound when charging battery doriftu Malaysian R/C Racers 35 10-10-2007 12:12 AM
HISSING CELLS tenpins77 Electric Off-Road 18 07-28-2007 02:22 PM



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 02:05 AM.


We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net