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Old 11-29-2009, 10:38 AM   #571
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Guys you read his post wrong. He's running 1 dg camber. He is using numbers before his actual setup numbers like 1,2,3,4,5. lol

Vinny, Put lilac fronts on and glue the sidewall. Run yellow rears. back the tweak screws all the way off so that there is a gap between the springs and the links, do not run the side springs loaded.

car should be dialed

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forgot to ask, are u running jack or paragon? sounds like jack
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Old 11-29-2009, 10:44 AM   #572
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tellan View Post
I dont ever have too glue front tyres on our club track. Grip is normally low to meduim.So I dont glue fronts.
Run 45mm rears and 43 fronts. Normally a 2 degree difference. Caster and camber is some thing i can look at. Normally run 1 degree leaning in. Blocks are the 5 degree caster and top wishbone with 2 washers at rear and 1 at front.
Some one suggested sag in the middle of the car helps with rear grip.????

Shock spring is blue , Shock oil is 30,000wt.

Appreciate all the help and hope to get there in the end. Its just so frustrating Got to wait a week before i can try any thing. 6 runs next weekend. One practice run, 3 qualifying and 2 finals.
Lipo and 10.5.

vinny
Yes, sag does make the car settle and react quickly. Found out not having it makes the car inconsistent. I run very little droop too.

Are you certain the distance from the front and rear wheels is the same as the original front-end. If it is shorter or longer than designed it could create more problems as I have discovered fitting it with an HB front-end.
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Old 11-29-2009, 10:59 AM   #573
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Neither paragon ,Banned in the Uk .Jack is almost impossible to buy since Corally dont seem to have an importer in the Uk.

Use CS or Speedtech. Measure the wheelbase centres they are the same.

Think i have lots of things to try .

One point, side springs are 021 and loaded .by One full turn of the Alan screw.

with Ae front end wheel base is longer by approx 4/5 mm. Didnt think this would affect the car as car was originally Ae .???? yes/no.

One point that hasnt been addressed is the popping out of the front teflon o-rings when i used the original front end.
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Old 11-30-2009, 07:39 AM   #574
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Default This is where im at

Firstly many thanks too all the PMs i have had and very usefull advice.Also been contacted by Bruce who also sent me aload of usefull info.

So this is where ive been and where im at now.


Going to preserver with the AE front end for now, I do have my second car which I havenít built yet. Just for your information I had to run a 1/8th reamer through the Teflon rings and removed a very small sliver of material so that would have solved my problem with popping washers

1.First problem I discovered is the centre pivot ball was very tight ,backed screws off 1/12turn and now sweet .
2.Rebuilt shock 50wt oil and blue spring and shortened one of the ball cups.
3.Front end 022 springs fitted 050mm before preload
4.5degree caster blocks, On top pivot 1mm washer in rear 050mm washer in front.
5.1 degree of negative camber
6.green spooge in tubes.
7.021 side springs backed right off
8.Zero droop
9. approx 070 of sag

Spent a lot of time with the ride height adjustments droop sag etc. Think im on the right track.
Car with cell and motor fitted on my level board.

Front 3.5mm
Front pivot ball 2.7mm
Rear pivot ball 3mm
Rear pod 3.5mm


Anything else you think ive missed. Six days before i can test again.I do hope ive solved the problems with this setup as the folowing week after we have our 2 day national event. Not the sort of place to be testing.I do hope i dont have to drag my xray out and go back too the dark side of cells.Lipo rocks.Hopefully the Speedmerchant does too.
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Old 11-30-2009, 08:39 AM   #575
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On your top pivot, I think you should swap your washers around, or start with them all in front. With the 2 stock washers that come with an AE front, both in back is 2' caster, 1 in front and 1 in back is 4', both in front is 6'. So even though you are using 5' blocks, you have about 2.5 degrees of caster and when the front springs give under braking you will only have about 0.5 at turn-in. I don't think that's enough. The 5' blocks don't control the caster, they control the pivot inclination which controls the amount of caster change during suspension travel.
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Old 12-07-2009, 01:43 AM   #576
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Default Few queries and Ae front end set up

Made the changes with a few tweaks and car went good.
I have a querie on side spring when backed off found the rear of chassis and rear pod edges rubbing on carpet. Does the ride height need to be higher or can i dial this out by tightening down the side springs.
Other thing i found is diff needs to be very tight ,think one of the problems was i might have been diffing out on previous runs when it was going badly .Only downer on this i destroyed the thrust bearing and went through 3 diff plastic nuts Stripped. Need to work on diff as its really rough and notchy.
Any one using the slapmaster thrust race.????

Final set up.

1. Centre pivot ball was very tight ,backed screws off 1/12turn and now sweet .
2.Rebuilt shock 50wt oil and blue spring and shortened one of the ball cups.
3.Front end 022 springs fitted , 050mm before preload
4.5degree caster blocks, On top pivot all washers too rear 6 degree of caster
5.1 degree of negative camber
6.green spooge in tubes.
7.021 side springs backed right off
8.Zero droop
9. Managed some sag
10.Off load chassis and rear pod level

Spent a lot of time with the ride height adjustments droop sag etc. Think im on the right track.

Car with cell and motor fitted on my level board.
Front 3.5mm
Front pivot ball 2.7mm
Rear pivot ball 3mm
Rear pod 3.5mm
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Old 12-07-2009, 06:03 AM   #577
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your car sounds low. can u fit a 3mm rod under it without hitting the chassis as you said the center pivot is at 2.7mm? the rub marks could be because of ride height or the amount of sag you are running.

what rear axle holder are you running? I always run the associated #4 in the low position. with larger tires the car I'd a little high at the axle but makes the car drive like a caddy.

as for your diff -- I haven't done anything than just swap out bearings. you can look online and find them pretty cheap. have a loose diff is bad. having a notchy diff is worse. you'll probably need to replace your rings (or flip them over) and diff balls too. Team IRS has some nice stuff. don't forget to sand your rings flat. I use something between 600-1000 grit sand paper.

hopefully you will look to move back to the kit front end. it is really my favorite part of the car. I'm good at hitting stuff and ejecting my car off the track. the car alwas finishes the run... and usually all I need to do is swap out the white Teflon ki
kingpin shims.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tellan View Post
Made the changes with a few tweaks and car went good.
I have a querie on side spring when backed off found the rear of chassis and rear pod edges rubbing on carpet. Does the ride height need to be higher or can i dial this out by tightening down the side springs.
Other thing i found is diff needs to be very tight ,think one of the problems was i might have been diffing out on previous runs when it was going badly .Only downer on this i destroyed the thrust bearing and went through 3 diff plastic nuts Stripped. Need to work on diff as its really rough and notchy.
Any one using the slapmaster thrust race.????

Final set up.

1. Centre pivot ball was very tight ,backed screws off 1/12turn and now sweet .
2.Rebuilt shock 50wt oil and blue spring and shortened one of the ball cups.
3.Front end 022 springs fitted , 050mm before preload
4.5degree caster blocks, On top pivot all washers too rear 6 degree of caster
5.1 degree of negative camber
6.green spooge in tubes.
7.021 side springs backed right off
8.Zero droop
9. Managed some sag
10.Off load chassis and rear pod level

Spent a lot of time with the ride height adjustments droop sag etc. Think im on the right track.

Car with cell and motor fitted on my level board.
Front 3.5mm
Front pivot ball 2.7mm
Rear pivot ball 3mm
Rear pod 3.5mm
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Old 12-07-2009, 06:34 AM   #578
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0 droop and 22 front springs are the only thing I can see. 22 just seams a little hard. i have only run the 22s in the front of my wgt car. and when ever I run zero droop, it seams to make the rear of the car unstable going in to the corners. i think what it is doing is as you transfer weight to the front going into the corner, the rear end probably lifts to the point that the car is not on the ground. so it makes it hard to control rotation. I usually run at least 1mm of droop.

but that is just me.
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Old 12-07-2009, 06:58 AM   #579
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Default Thanks for the imput guys

I guess the sag is making car too low will raise for the weekend.Also i think I agree on the front springs changing them too .020. Apart from that leaving car as is.
Need to do some work on the diff and see if i can get a slap master thrust bearing for the diff also. Compared to my XRAY X11 the diff is rubbish. My xray diff was like silk.

Running the car again with the Ae front end but plan to build up my second car with the OEM front end.Its just i dont have a lot of time between meetings. National this weekend and then xmass then off too the Snowbirds. Will be bring both cars with me ,so will have plenty of help there I guess.
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Old 12-07-2009, 07:11 AM   #580
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Diff building 101 with Michael Hanulec. Where do I register? We all know I need it.
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Old 12-07-2009, 07:14 AM   #581
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on the diff, not sure what is going on. I think everyone in the industry is running an irs axle. or at least over 75% of the 1/12 are.

I have not seen any problems with the diff, i did sand the diff rings and run ceramic diff balls, but then dumas came along. he pulls the axle and diff out of the package. does not even sand the thing. he motor sprays the diff balls, and then uses assoc diff grease and puts the whole thing together and it was soo smooth that if you turn a wheel the diff would spin. it would not even turn over a 13.5 duo motor. you do not need to run it tight. as long as the diff does not slip at all. I run it with no slip. I have heard of guys running an alum lock nut. i think it is the wheel nuts of a tc3/4. i think I watched bruce build dumas's diff in vegas every round only in mod, but i don't think i needed it. I think he does it just for consistency. in stock, I may build my diff once a month. and we run on a pretty dusty track
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Old 12-07-2009, 09:27 AM   #582
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoelV View Post
Diff building 101 with Michael Hanulec. Where do I register? We all know I need it.
haha

Joel - it still blows my mind the issues u have getting your diff tight enough. they are always smooth, but just loose -- kind of like Casey

maybe I can be like Gilles and make or YouTube video -- or maybe not. anyway - if any speed merchant guys need help with their diff and im at the track just stop by.
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Old 12-07-2009, 10:05 AM   #583
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I took diff building 101 from Bruce on day at IIC last year. This is my style:

Everything gets cleaned with motor spray. IRS rings out of the package, no sanding. Associated Stealth diff lube (black text on tube) - little dab in every hole. New chrome steel diff balls, one in every hole (I use spurs that take over 12 balls, usually a double row like a Kimborough, currently running PRS). Check the thrust bearing, if it is crap, replace it with a new Avid bearing (what the kit comes with). Check the axle bearings, if they feel like crap, replace them, too. I do not run the Slapmaster thrust assembly, feel it is un-necessary rotating mass.

NEVER use anything other than a nylon nut for diff adjustment. 1, that is how you tell the world you are a serious hack. 2, there is no feel for diff adjustment, and is too easy to over-tighten. You should be able to hold both tires in each hand, and use the thumb of the hand holding the diff side to attempt to slip the spur. Work the diff action as you are tightening the nut as the balls start to contact the diff rings. From this point tighten a little, work it, tighten it a little more, work the diff some more. Tighten it until it is hard to slip with reasonable effort.

For club racing, after the first run, re-check the tension (slip) to make sure that it is not slipping/over tight. Learn what the diff should feel like now, because when you go to Snowbirds, should you need to re-build your diff, ther won't be much time for testing/checking.
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Old 12-07-2009, 04:30 PM   #584
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AE 6636 is the pn I think for the lube. And I concur with teh no sanding, steel chrome balls, motor spray everything and new bearings as needed approach. Even when I rebuild I just clean everything and reassemble. I 've used balls and rings in 13.5 for months and months doing nothing but cleaning them and it still feels great. My standard is like Yangs. If it doesn't counter rotate against the resistance of a properly gear-meshed 13.5 its not right. With a properly built diff it should stay locked when you try to "slip" it like mentioned above and should still diff out against the motor and be ice-on-glass smooth.
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Old 12-08-2009, 03:28 PM   #585
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Fitted carbide balls , new plates and diff like silk now. Still going too fit a thrust bearing set(slapmaster).
Runing this weekend at Uk national Will let you know how I get one. Will be only Speedmerchant running in the Uk at least at national level.
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