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Old 09-19-2007, 09:30 AM   #61
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i add 95g to my FK04 & 125g to my old BD i had , if this is all i have to do to use my Li-po @ club racing ,then it is a small price to pay so being a pain it is not (not when compared to charging & equalising c-cells)
[QUOTE=MR JOLLY;3686269

the weight i have no problem with either ,i'm just as quick with my li-po as i am with c-cells @1500g
i have just spent 70.00 (li-po) on battery for this winter instead of 135.00 (3 pks)

(it's a HOBBY[/QUOTE]

ease of maintenance & money saved & not wasted ,slightly slower then c-cells @1500g

but as Kathrine Tate say's

'AM I BOTHERED' No ,just gratefull that certain clubs have allowed hard cased Li-Po in

The End
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Old 09-19-2007, 09:53 AM   #62
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Alright guys, you had better watch how you debate this subject. Mr. Losi has already closed three threads concerning this type of topic because he felt that discussion on this is useless. Better play nice or the Censorship Moderator will come down hard and shut all of you down for discussing something "he" doesn't like or want to hear!!!
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Old 09-19-2007, 09:54 AM   #63
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I have learned, live by the rules and abide by the forum rules. But, some of you dudes are a bit harsh in your tone in getting your message across.
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Old 09-19-2007, 09:59 AM   #64
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Ok lets clear a few things up.........the weight reduction for 5 cell is to make up for the 17% power source reduction......the weight reduction is only 5%.

weight reduction = 5%
power reduction = 17%

This is why 5 cell is only faster in mod....you can motor up.
A 5 cell stock or 19 turn car will never be as fast as a 6 cell car.

What I don't understand is why there should be a weight reduction for lipo when there is virtually no power reduction.
Josh, for once I see a point you are making. True, there is no real power reduction but, should the individual that runs lipo be penalized because he has opted for a pack that is a few grams lighter? To that extent, next it'll be the manufacturers working hard to see who can make the lightest lipos. Your points on weight reduction and benefiting from 5 cell in mod primarily is spot on..those cars are wicked fast!
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Last edited by bxpitbull; 09-19-2007 at 10:17 AM.
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Old 09-19-2007, 02:08 PM   #65
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In 1:1 racing if a team finds extra light fuel or engine, are they allowed to run under weight? IF they build an engine thats 50lb under what everyone else is running, and some teams jump on the engine and start using them do they all petition for a weight change? No they save the weight and add what they need to be legal somewhere else in the car..


LIPO early adopters have all kinds of positive reasons to convert. Now you want to add to the mix a weight advantage? Talk about having your cake and eat it too! IF the bandwagon is now finding out that when they race by rules that include min weight that they are now at a disadvantage then go back to nihm. I just don't understand the issue here.

This crap about peak voltage is useless. Each type peaks at different voltage and each one has different discharge curves.
NIHM 6cell=7.2volts nominal
NIHM 5cell=6 volts nominal
LIPO=7.4volts nominal

If a guy decides to remove a cell and run 5 cell that his prerogative he needs to maintain weight. If someone wants to run lipo the same is true. We all have to remember that the majority runs nihm, in time we will all run lipo, and then weight rules will come down.

This kind of logic would have guys submitting Discharge curves of all the batteries to claim which weight category they should run in. I only run 2400s and they only peak at 8volts and there over all discharge average is only 1.18. I should run less weight.......

I choose a higher turn motor i should have weight advantage, i choose crappy stick pack i should have weight advantge... I choose LIPO i should get a weight advantage..


Look I'm not anti lipo, we allow them at our club, and everyone runs min weight. The losi guys are in heaven, they use a flat steel plate battery tray and add the extra lead on top of the lipo.... The club at this point has a maybe 5% running lipo.. Hardly the conditions to look at reducing min weight rules.

My intentions is to go lipo once the "heavy" orion pack comes out. or when my nihms crap out. Also looking to see the SMC lipo out soon.

Anyway this thread is turning out like it always does when a few guys get on here and have pissing matches. Lets just stick to the subject and really look at the issue.


If your club has 80-90% of its members running lipo, petition for a weigh drop. I would be first to sign my name. But if your clubs like mine about 5% on lipo then buy some lead and spend time working setup to go faster.


Have at me.
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Last edited by Joel Lagace; 09-19-2007 at 02:29 PM. Reason: spelling man i suck
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Old 09-19-2007, 02:18 PM   #66
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IF a guy buys a heavy car IE losi street weapon and xxxs. Both those cars where much heavier then the others at the time. If all the other cars could make 1525 or what ever, should the losi guys at the time petitioned to have all other cars run at there weight? be it 1550 or 1600??? Or did they swiss cheese there chassis and choose lighter electronics???
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Old 09-19-2007, 02:35 PM   #67
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Have at me.
You know what I think about what you just spewed? You are totally right and I agree 99%. The 1% is regarding the petitioning if a significant majority run lipo in a club. Wait until it nationally catches on if ever.
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Old 09-19-2007, 04:16 PM   #68
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I've read it. It's one guy whinning he does like the car weights with lipos. He has to add weight.He races in one area at a local track. If he want's the rules at his local track to change see them.Who cares about what 4600 will be- I can tell you the lipos are here just like the Brushless motors. Old technolgy is getting phased out and the new is coming and fast.Until then add the weight!
Obviusly you have misread or misinterpreted what's been said. I dont know what's so difficult and why you're trying to make it into something else...again- I like the weight rules- its the way to go, and I dont have pblm racing with current rules- the pblm is that there is an issue w/ lighter lipo packs and adding all that weight. Lipo packs do not have the same punch as good matched 6 nimh cells. A lipo equiped car will be as fast or a bit faster than 6 cell nimh car if it runs at lighter weight. That's where lipo's shine...and its something knowledgable racers know as a fact- that's why "pro" or really good nimh fans dont care if lipo's drivers run with them as long as they meet the heavy weight nimh...they know they will be a bit faster anyway, so who cares...its those running lipo that have to "suffer"...it just shows that these rules have been made by those running nimh with really trying out and comparing/testing out lipo packs and their performance...that's all.

However, w/ brushless vs. brushed motors...club directors and drivers have been known to first test the bl motors and see how they compare w/ brushed motors- that's why Novak ss4300 "stock" BL motors had to be bumped up to the 10.5 Bl version, and they had to make a new 13.5 version to better match 27T brushed motor performance, since the brushed motor crowd whined about Novak SS4300 stock BL motors being faster than their 27 brushed counter parts...other Bl motor companies soon followed suite and today we have the 13.5, 10.5, and mod classes pretty much standard.

Shouldnt the same cosideration and testing and comparison be done w/ Lipo batteries to learn about them and their perfomance vs nimh cells before having allowed them for racing? How much testing have you done? What have your race directors/club owners, local "good" drivers done to test the Lipo packs they plan to allow in racing, Like FSEARA directors and members- have they tested the packs? Can they please tell us what weight works best for the packs perfornace and safety? Anything? I know the answer....so do you....
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Old 09-19-2007, 05:10 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by Josh H View Post
Ok lets clear a few things up.........the weight reduction for 5 cell is to make up for the 17% power source reduction......the weight reduction is only 5%.

weight reduction = 5%
power reduction = 17%

This is why 5 cell is only faster in mod....you can motor up.
A 5 cell stock or 19 turn car will never be as fast as a 6 cell car.

What I don't understand is why there should be a weight reduction for lipo when there is virtually no power reduction.
Exactly Josh...once you reduce the power of the cells, you cant expect it to perform as well if it keep old 6 cell weight- that's why the change came...they tested and determined that at 5 or 4 cells, the car needs to be much lighter for it to perform at equal or better times than the 6 cell nimh cars...for those running mod- EFRA has decided to go the 5 cell route, and some in the US, probably most by now, running mod are also running 5 cells, since that helps overall w/ lower ESC and motor temps, etc...but have they forgotten to drop the weight also? Are 5 cell mod and 6 cell mod running the same weight here in the US? Is that going to change?

Any ways, with Lipo, at 7.4v, a 3200mah or 4800 lipo pack doesnt have the same power/punch out put present "team" packs have- for goodness sakes, I remember about 8 months ago buying WC edition IB4200 Orion cells matched at 1.267v average per cell!!! Check out the numbers on what the fast guys will be running at the LIIC comming up- they'll be in the 1.27+ range for sure, and by next year even higher....so the those runnning 5-6 cell mod will keep getting faster, while those running 7.4v lipo will stay where they are currently at...you dont see a pblm w/ that? You dont think something can be done about this? Its easy to just say- the hell with it- run the 5-6cell nimh weighta nd deal with the slower lipo speed/punch...I think we can do better than that. its the right thing to and it's what we'll do at our club. We have done the research and tested and have a base for what I am saying- I'd like to know who else has tested and what results you have found- and yes, I have tested w/ modified class BL motors and Lipo and have run against 5-6 cell nimh and compared...
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Old 09-19-2007, 05:19 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by bxpitbull View Post
Josh, for once I see a point you are making. True, there is no real power reduction but, should the individual that runs lipo be penalized because he has opted for a pack that is a few grams lighter? To that extent, next it'll be the manufacturers working hard to see who can make the lightest lipos. Your points on weight reduction and benefiting from 5 cell in mod primarily is spot on..those cars are wicked fast!
maybe they dont understand that Lipo packs will not produce the same power/punch those newer 4200 and now 4500mah nimh matched cells are producing these days...its probabl because they have none or very little experience running w/ Lipo packs or have not tested and compared how they do agaist 5 cell and 6 cell mod counterparts...that's the problem...otherwise they would understand...so how in the world could they just allow Lipo and ignore how it performs under that heavy 1525g 6 cell nimh weight? Obviously they have not tested, which is irresposible in IMHO...

If its like that, why not run Li-IOn Nanophosphate A123 packs instead? They weigh as much as 5 cell nimh, but have 6.6volts, and much safer than Lipo packs and have much more longer cycle life...hmmm

that seems like a better match for 5 cell nimh racing- a little more even? But, where's the research? Someone on the FSEARA board/members have to have tested and I'm sure will continue to test and seek improvement in these areas...that's good and encouraging. But are Li-Iion A123 cells allowed by FSEARA on 2008? Has this pack been studied/tested?
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Old 09-19-2007, 06:50 PM   #71
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yyhayyim, you dont have to tell me, I agree with you. I am all for the lighter lipo/more punch thing, why should I have to weigh my car....I had a thread on this topic some weeks ago. But, as explained to me, they have to have rules in place...eventually, someone will come up with a pack that is so light with so much power, it'll make us current lipo dudes saying "WAY DOWN THOSE CARS". So, just weigh it, follow the rules and be happy that you can go through at least 4 races on one pack without recharging
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Old 09-19-2007, 08:13 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by bxpitbull View Post
yyhayyim, you dont have to tell me, I agree with you. I am all for the lighter lipo/more punch thing, why should I have to weigh my car....I had a thread on this topic some weeks ago. But, as explained to me, they have to have rules in place...eventually, someone will come up with a pack that is so light with so much power, it'll make us current lipo dudes saying "WAY DOWN THOSE CARS". So, just weigh it, follow the rules and be happy that you can go through at least 4 races on one pack without recharging
For now...yeah...what else can we do...at least at our club we can address this and move on...
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Old 09-19-2007, 09:22 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by yyhayyim View Post
maybe they dont understand that Lipo packs will not produce the same power/punch those newer 4200 and now 4500mah nimh matched cells are producing these days...its probabl because they have none or very little experience running w/ Lipo packs or have not tested and compared how they do agaist 5 cell and 6 cell mod counterparts...that's the problem...otherwise they would understand...so how in the world could they just allow Lipo and ignore how it performs under that heavy 1525g 6 cell nimh weight? Obviously they have not tested, which is irresposible in IMHO...

If its like that, why not run Li-IOn Nanophosphate A123 packs instead? They weigh as much as 5 cell nimh, but have 6.6volts, and much safer than Lipo packs and have much more longer cycle life...hmmm

that seems like a better match for 5 cell nimh racing- a little more even? But, where's the research? Someone on the FSEARA board/members have to have tested and I'm sure will continue to test and seek improvement in these areas...that's good and encouraging. But are Li-Iion A123 cells allowed by FSEARA on 2008? Has this pack been studied/tested?

it's club racing. If you are that competitive then run the highest voltage batts you can find but it comes at the expense of battery life. If you are talking mod then you can just motor up and that will fix the problem.



As for Spec racing the 5 cells with the weight reduction still can't hang in the 19 turn or 10.5.
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Old 09-19-2007, 10:15 PM   #74
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Nominal voltage is not what matters. The only thing that matters is the voltage under load. All batteries will drop voltage when a sufficient load is applied.

Measure the pack voltage during acceleration... THAT is the number you must compare.

A good lipo can hold it's voltage better than any nimh I have seen.

IMO, there is no way a good 2s lipo will be slower than a 6 cell nimh pack.... even with the weight added to equal a nimh pack. I have done it and the lipo was noticeably faster than my matched (yet not the latest cells) packs. It wasn't even close.

Just had to jump in cause I thought all the talk about the 7.2 vs 7.4... 1.3v cells, and peak volts, etc... was funny cause that has little to do with how it runs.
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Old 09-20-2007, 03:50 AM   #75
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This is for yyhayyim: I don't recall you at any FSEARA races?As for testing them in the master class there were two of us. One pack never made it to the track as it went puff along with the motor(BL) and new esc.The other guy rcgen reported what he did. The series will make every driver add the weight for each class min. weight(1525 grams).We are also voting on allowing only hard pack lipos for safety.
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